To many Elk?
- Thread starter bobsyouruncle
- Start date
noahmercy
Blackhawk
Notice the rancher wants the government to help, and only allows access to family and employees to hunt. I say, let the elk eat all his grass if he's unwilling to let ethical hunters on his property to cull the herd. And as to the comment he made about the elk just running onto a neighbor's ranch after two or three shots...well that gets them off his, right? Isn't that the goal? If the neighbors choose to disallow hunters on their property, then that's their lookout. A lot of us hunters here in Wyoming are disgusted with all the people who have moved here and purchased ranches, only to close them down to hunters, then want taxpayers to help them with a problem they created.
^^^ This.
Smells like incompetent and unethical wanna-be hunting to me.
Kind of the same story throughout the West and maybe other areas. Land owner upset with birds or game on their land. They say the creatures are state owned and the state needs to pay for their loss of range or other stuff. Mostly they will not allow other hunters on their land or charge really high fees that the average person cannot pay. Ok, it's their land. I get that, but don't they have an obligation to fence their land off if they don't want the big game on it. A cattle fence of course is not enough. With birds there are sample low cost methods that keep birds away. Or allow the public to hunt and kill the offenders.
^^^ Well said. Where our land is in north central South Dakota, we only allow family or well known family friends to hunt. If others chase deer onto our land, cool for us. :) Problem is they don't stop running for a mile or two........open prairie/farm land, not too many trees or places to hide. :LOL:
BearBiologist
Hunter
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I agree there's gotta be a better way BUT it is their land! If they allowed hunters, some would object to paying a fee to hunt. Can't satisfy everyone.
Working for the Feds as a Wildlife Biologist and reviewing grazing leases, I (as did most biologists) came to call grazing leases "rural welfare". If the gov't subsidizes your grazing with ultra-low fees, then predation should be considered just an operating cost. Maybe the solution is to end compensation programs and raise penalties for poaching, so as to promote hunting access. Let's face it, for all their bragging about "preserving" the land, they are simply motivated by the Almighty Dollar!
Working for the Feds as a Wildlife Biologist and reviewing grazing leases, I (as did most biologists) came to call grazing leases "rural welfare". If the gov't subsidizes your grazing with ultra-low fees, then predation should be considered just an operating cost. Maybe the solution is to end compensation programs and raise penalties for poaching, so as to promote hunting access. Let's face it, for all their bragging about "preserving" the land, they are simply motivated by the Almighty Dollar!
Oh lets be honest here about rural welfare.
Ever looked at the “farm bill”? :rolleyes: Yeah it’s been bastardized but the fact remains that farmers get paid to not work, not plant crops, etc. And BTW I come from a farm background and have family who owns a few thousand row crop acres.
There’s truth to the old joke about the 2 big lies farmers tell: 1. I paid for this seed corn hat and 2. I never took a government check.
Ever looked at the “farm bill”? :rolleyes: Yeah it’s been bastardized but the fact remains that farmers get paid to not work, not plant crops, etc. And BTW I come from a farm background and have family who owns a few thousand row crop acres.
There’s truth to the old joke about the 2 big lies farmers tell: 1. I paid for this seed corn hat and 2. I never took a government check.
I agree, just another way of throwing their hand out wanting tax payers to fill it up and pay for their problems they create!
The idea of them opening up their land to those willing to pay to hunt should be ban as well. Most are already getting paid by tax payers for the land they now want to profit of of from the same tax payers already paying them. Now they collect again, and you can bet they ain't paying taxes on it. I say cut em off!
They days of family farmers and ethical farmers is over! Today it's just another business, wanting tax breaks, hand outs, and sticking it to those that pay their taxes, they sure ain't!
The idea of them opening up their land to those willing to pay to hunt should be ban as well. Most are already getting paid by tax payers for the land they now want to profit of of from the same tax payers already paying them. Now they collect again, and you can bet they ain't paying taxes on it. I say cut em off!
They days of family farmers and ethical farmers is over! Today it's just another business, wanting tax breaks, hand outs, and sticking it to those that pay their taxes, they sure ain't!
if this is the same guy , which it probably is, sounds like a interesting life story, also seem like they've had a lot of help in their past and maybe forgot where they came from, maybe he sould pay-forward some of the help he received in the past
https://mrangusranch.com/
http://www.angusjournal.com/ArticlePDF/1119-MR-angus.pdf
Two working dogs, Poncho and Dollar, leap from the tire tank where they've been told to "get a drink" by Juan Reyes. They've successfully navigated yearlings through a pasture gate with the help of Reyes only to get them started with subtle commands and to open and close the gate for them. Juan and Joni Reyes have the classic "American dream" story, though Juan credits their success to the democracy of the United States that allows for opportunities. At the age of 11, Juan's parents brought him and his two sisters out of Cuba and into Florida around 1962. The Catholic Church got them to Washington state with about 70 other Cuban kids. He grew up there and attended Washington State College for one year before transferring to the University of Wyoming (UW) thanks to the allure of the cowboy lifestyle. Juan and Joni met at UW in Laramie and were married soon after. Joni's 12 head of Eileenmerebred Angus were added to Juan's 20 head of commercial cows, and the Reyeses continued growing their operation by joining forces with John and Cara Milnor, of Tie Siding, Wyo. They formed MR Angus — the name they still use today. They added 483 acres on the Wheatland flats to their growing list of assets. Then in the early 1990s, the Reyeses bought out the Milnors. By purchasing land adjacent to their own throughout the years, Juan and Joni have come to own 22 center pivots that produce corn silage and alfalfa for their 7,000-head capacity feedyards. It also feeds their 1,000 head of registered cows. Their children, Jason and Jennifer, along with Jennifer's husband Mick Burr, help manage the operation as a family. Juan and Joni are stepping back as they are able, and the trio is stepping up into management roles.
https://mrangusranch.com/
http://www.angusjournal.com/ArticlePDF/1119-MR-angus.pdf
Two working dogs, Poncho and Dollar, leap from the tire tank where they've been told to "get a drink" by Juan Reyes. They've successfully navigated yearlings through a pasture gate with the help of Reyes only to get them started with subtle commands and to open and close the gate for them. Juan and Joni Reyes have the classic "American dream" story, though Juan credits their success to the democracy of the United States that allows for opportunities. At the age of 11, Juan's parents brought him and his two sisters out of Cuba and into Florida around 1962. The Catholic Church got them to Washington state with about 70 other Cuban kids. He grew up there and attended Washington State College for one year before transferring to the University of Wyoming (UW) thanks to the allure of the cowboy lifestyle. Juan and Joni met at UW in Laramie and were married soon after. Joni's 12 head of Eileenmerebred Angus were added to Juan's 20 head of commercial cows, and the Reyeses continued growing their operation by joining forces with John and Cara Milnor, of Tie Siding, Wyo. They formed MR Angus — the name they still use today. They added 483 acres on the Wheatland flats to their growing list of assets. Then in the early 1990s, the Reyeses bought out the Milnors. By purchasing land adjacent to their own throughout the years, Juan and Joni have come to own 22 center pivots that produce corn silage and alfalfa for their 7,000-head capacity feedyards. It also feeds their 1,000 head of registered cows. Their children, Jason and Jennifer, along with Jennifer's husband Mick Burr, help manage the operation as a family. Juan and Joni are stepping back as they are able, and the trio is stepping up into management roles.
Yellowstone?
https://www.wylr.net/2022/02/04/ranchers-join-forces-to-address-wildlife-concerns/
WGFD has been focused on providing more access to the public, but local ranchers take pride in private property rights.
Reyes believes private property rights should be taken to heart by both ranchers and the public, as private property rights are what sets the U.S. apart from other countries.
"Allowing folks to go across private land to access public lands is a big issue. To me, it is no different than permitting someone to walk through my living room so they can get to my backyard, enabling them to get to a public road," Reyes says. "Corner crossing is also chipping and eroding away at our private property rights."
WGFD has been focused on providing more access to the public, but local ranchers take pride in private property rights.
Reyes believes private property rights should be taken to heart by both ranchers and the public, as private property rights are what sets the U.S. apart from other countries.
"Allowing folks to go across private land to access public lands is a big issue. To me, it is no different than permitting someone to walk through my living room so they can get to my backyard, enabling them to get to a public road," Reyes says. "Corner crossing is also chipping and eroding away at our private property rights."
I'm siding with the 'rancher' on this one since I'm basically in the same boat.
' and only allows access to family and employees to hunt. '
And why not? I was asked the very same thing a month ago when I requested more information about removing excess deer from our cropland. I have all the hunters I need--I just want the tags it takes to make the 'killing/harvesting' legal. Damn straight I don't need someone taking a wild shot or three and scaring the critters off the fields only to have them return after dark.
Give this some thought: According to Game and Fish, they(the state) OWN the wildlife since they make management decisions about herd size and harvest tag numbers. According to MY logic, if they OWN the critters, they should be responsible for those critters AND the damage those critters do to private property.
' and only allows access to family and employees to hunt. '
And why not? I was asked the very same thing a month ago when I requested more information about removing excess deer from our cropland. I have all the hunters I need--I just want the tags it takes to make the 'killing/harvesting' legal. Damn straight I don't need someone taking a wild shot or three and scaring the critters off the fields only to have them return after dark.
Give this some thought: According to Game and Fish, they(the state) OWN the wildlife since they make management decisions about herd size and harvest tag numbers. According to MY logic, if they OWN the critters, they should be responsible for those critters AND the damage those critters do to private property.
BearBiologist
Hunter
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True but, in the case of grazing leases, THEY own the land and you are paying a tiny amount of rent to use it! ($2.38 per AU, was the last I heard). And what about CRP that pays farmer's NOT to harvest crops?
If the states and Feds didn’t claim to own all of Gods creatures they may not be able to keep their grubby mitts in your wallet for fees.
Now, if the state would exempt the property owner from potential liability against civil suits when a stranger slips and falls or accidentally kills his hunting partner on your land ….. that may sway some land owners but I doubt it.
I’m all for the landowner having total control over their private property but …. you know going into land ownership critters are there. If you don’t want the critters on your land …. Get a fence up that’ll keep them out. But don’t expect your tax paying neighbors to fund your culling efforts. That’s pretty liberal.
Now, if the state would exempt the property owner from potential liability against civil suits when a stranger slips and falls or accidentally kills his hunting partner on your land ….. that may sway some land owners but I doubt it.
I’m all for the landowner having total control over their private property but …. you know going into land ownership critters are there. If you don’t want the critters on your land …. Get a fence up that’ll keep them out. But don’t expect your tax paying neighbors to fund your culling efforts. That’s pretty liberal.
BearBiologist
Hunter
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Looked it up: $1.35 per animal unit for 2022 for 30,000 leases (not acres but leases!)
Bureau of Land Management (we referred to it as the "Bureau of Lumber and Mining") leases 155,000,000 acres. USDA is much harder to find figures for. Even NASS (National Agricultural Statistics Service) had the data pretty well hidden.
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BROKENBEAR
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2016
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MObuck I have the same problem on my ground ..Oh I can get the permits here in Missouri BUT you have to Leave'EM lay where you shoot them ..coming from a time of when you did not even waste the feet off a hog that doesn't sit too well
Bear
If you shoot and hit them, they aren’t able to run off the the neighbors property! A little gun shooting skills might just help them deal with the problem!
My opinion is the landowner should take the necessary responsible initiative to secure his property. And no way in hell should tax payers pay for it! There are plenty of tags to other hunters that would gladly meet the cause!
But most large land track owners want to create a problem by not addressing it, to either make money on it chargibg others, or in a more preferable, and proffitable way for them, expect hand outs to address it with others tax dollars, while they write it off to keep from paying taxes. JTWISI.
But most large land track owners want to create a problem by not addressing it, to either make money on it chargibg others, or in a more preferable, and proffitable way for them, expect hand outs to address it with others tax dollars, while they write it off to keep from paying taxes. JTWISI.
If you don't want nature and its accompanying critters that go with it, stay in the fricking city.
It is downright ridiculous and sad what we Americans beech and whine about today.
It is downright ridiculous and sad what we Americans beech and whine about today.
"but don't they have an obligation to fence their land off if they don't want the big game on it. A cattle fence of course is not enough."
I don't know WY fence laws but generally, the owner of 'non-traditional' livestock is REQUIRED to fence ALL of his perimeter at a level that controls HIS livestock. In other words: I don't have to build an 8' high netwire fence to keep the neighbors' deer off my land or out of my crops.
I don't know WY fence laws but generally, the owner of 'non-traditional' livestock is REQUIRED to fence ALL of his perimeter at a level that controls HIS livestock. In other words: I don't have to build an 8' high netwire fence to keep the neighbors' deer off my land or out of my crops.
Similar issue in Texas. A couple of years ago I was offered a FREE hog hunt in Texas, one catch though the ranch did the butchering at $1.00 per pound (they didn't say if the weigh in was before or after the butchering). If a feller got greedy or excited and killed 3 or more he may have to take out a mortgage on his home to pay for the sausage. Texas ranchers complain about the hog problem but they hamper the management of the pigs. BTW I passed on the opportunity.
Locally, well within 50 miles anyway, a large cattle & sheep ranch has pig problems. Deer too for that matter. They offer hunting at an ridiculous prices. Then has the audacity to complain about the damage done by the overpopulation of both species.
If they truly wanted to reduce the populations lowering/removing their fees would go a long way.
The problems they have are self created by decades of poor management.
If they truly wanted to reduce the populations lowering/removing their fees would go a long way.
The problems they have are self created by decades of poor management.
Correct you don’t HAVE to but you can CHOOSE to
OP
bobsyouruncle
Blackhawk
I think Wyoming is an open range state. Today in such a litigious world, it would be unwise to have people with high powered rifles running over your land. There should be a way to work this out to the benefit of all.
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They ought to harvest them and sell the meat. Until the numbers are in check.
Speaking on numbers. They estimated there were 100 million elk here when the Europeans got here. 100 thousand in 1900. Now 1 million.
Speaking on numbers. They estimated there were 100 million elk here when the Europeans got here. 100 thousand in 1900. Now 1 million.
BearBiologist
Hunter
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"Non-traditional" must be separated from wild game because of the transmission of various diseases that have been found in "game farms", such as brucellosis, and others.
