Titegroup .44 Special stained brass

[DennisE]

I'm reloading .44 Special for my Lipsey 4 5/8" Bisley Flattop. I using a 200 gr, LRNFT bullet over 4.8 grs. of Titegroup. Excellent load for shooting paper at the range but my spent brass has a black stain on on side. Cleans up when I tumble it. I've read about a so called "Titegroup Stain." Is this what I'm seeing my brass? What causesit? Would a lighter or heavier load of powder prevent it? Thanks, Dennis

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I get staining with Trail Boss, HP-38, and W231 as well. Also seeing unburnt, or maybe burnt, powder residue. Both .44 Special and .45 Colt. I initially thought it was due to the lower pressure loads not sealing the brass against the cylinder walls, but upping the pressure (to about middle of the range) didn't solve the problem.

I found W231/HP-38 (supposedly exactly the same thing) to be slightly less staining than TB, so I use that and tumble.

I too have heard Titegroup stains, but my experience is that pretty much everything does, just some worse than others.

-- Sam

 

[Dale53]

Of all of the things that might "bug" me, slight staining of brass has got to be WAY-Y-Y down the list. I tumble everything as a matter of course, and before tumbling, it is ALL dirty (that's why I tumble).

Besides, I don't want to hear anything negative about Titegroup. I just bought an 8 lb caddy of it...

Dale53

 

[RidgwayCO]

In my experience, Titegroup not only stained my brass but the stain was exceedingly difficult to remove. As I remember, my .44 Special brass spent twice the usual amount of time in the tumbler, and some of the cases were still stained upon removal. And if the brass is stained that bad, what about the cylinder chambers?

I used up the rest of my Titegroup in low-powered .380 LRN loads, and won't be buying anymore. IMHO, Accurate #2 and VihtaVuori N320 do everything Titegroup will do, but without the stain.

 

[gramps]

2400 does that to my brass also. I don't tumble, just wipe with a small amt of lube and commence to reload.
gramps

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

You are experiencing classic blowby. It is caused because the powder charge does not develop enough pressure to completely obdurate the case enough to seal it in the chamber. So some of the gas escapes around the side of the case, staining it in the process. It happens only on one side because of gravity. It is normal that a round fits in the chamber with a tiny bit of clearance. When the round is fired, the case is sitting 'down' in the chamber. There is more space at the top, so that is where the majority of the gas escapes.

The classic way to get rid of blowby is to raise pressure, to seal the case better in the chamber. You do this by either going to a heavier bullet, or adding powder. However, you don't have very far to go with that load before you reach the maximum recommended load.

Blow by really doesn't hurt anything, just leaves a smudge on your brass. If it comes right off when you tumble your brass, I wouldn't worry about it.

You ought to see how smudged my Black Powder brass is.

 

[AKGrouch]

I get the same thing with 7.0 grns of Unique behind a 250 gr Keith bullet.....ugly, but no problem.

 

[WESHOOT2]

I might point out that an above poster was correct; there is a corresponding 'stain' in your chamber.

I have over twenty handgun powders on my shelf, but none are Titegroup.



(Bullets "obturate"; brass "expands").

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I might point out that an above poster was correct; there is a corresponding 'stain' in your chamber.

Howdy Again

So what? How bad is some fouling in the chamber? Again, you ought to see the junk left behind by my Black Powder 45 Colt loads.

Then again, maybe the fouling of Titegroup is harder to remove than the fouling of BP.

 

[EDK]

TITEGROUP works good for me in both 357 and 44 mid range (1000 fps) loads with a wide range of bullets. HP38/231 is good also. I buy them BOTH in 8 pounders at GRAFS.

FWIW I clean the chambers and inspect the bore for leading every time I fire my pistols. I'm having some leading issues, but better accuracy going to .432 in my 44 VAQUEROS.

If the brass stain bothers you that much, get some of the ceramic media and your stuff will look like new. I use it for black powder casings and really nasty range pick up brass I brought.

 

[Olsherm]

Get a good 44/40 or a 38/40 and you will not have that problem with medium loads. Most of the time I do not have to tumble the brass at all unless I just want to.My 45 colts also stain the brass with every kind of powder I have tried. But I do not shoot hot loads. I think if you upped the powder charge enough to stop the blow-by you would have a hand full of recoil ect.JMHO

 

[Rclark]

Ummm, why are we worried about stained brass? Doesn't hurt a thing. Also, I don't tumble brass much any more unless there is a need (brass on the ground for example). Found out that untumbled brass works just as well as tumbled brass . A simple wipe of a paper towel before inserting case into resizing die does the trick to remove the slight residue.

 

[Pal Val]

Not all is the load's fault. I have found guns with chambers so oversize that the brass gets no chance to expand enough to get a seal. Since you can take away metal but not add, I simply live with it.

 

[Sheriff]

Ummm, why are we worried about stained brass? Doesn't hurt a thing. Also, I don't tumble brass much any more unless there is a need (brass on the ground for example). Found out that untumbled brass works just as well as tumbled brass . A simple wipe of a paper towel before inserting case into resizing die does the trick to remove the slight residue.

Yup!

 

[DennisE]

Just to clear the air, I'm not worried about the staining...I'm curious about it. I just loaded up some rounds with increased powder, 5.2 grs of Titegroup vs. my original 4.8 grs. I'm curious to see if the amount of staining increases or decreases or stays the same. Shoot 'em tomorrow. Dennis

 

[gramps]

We await your results with bated breath (please hurry not breathing is a Rosie)
gramps

 

[DennisE]

Gramps: LOL! Can't shoot till tomorrow so I think occasional gasps for breath are warrented. Dennis

 

[gramps]

Whew! :shock: Thanks Dennis.
gramps

 

[DennisE]

Alas! A bitter failure. Another 25 rounds of Titegroup stain! Load was increased to 5.2 grains. (Dennis hangs his head in shame at the outcome of his noble experiement) . Oh well...back to the tumbler we go!

 

[Dale53]

OMG!! A STAIN! The SHAME of it!! :shock: :shock:

LOL!!

A tumblin' we will go, a tumblin' we will go....:mrgreen:

Shoot Center!

Dale53

 

[gramps]

I bet the experiment goes on looking for the elusive stainless recipe. Have strength in this noble quest, and forge on into the unknown fair knight of the stainless cartridge. (OMG look what we have become)
gramps

 

[DennisE]

I my case I blame my age for what I have become! You should have known me in my youth before I was...stained.

As a side note, the increased load of 5.2 grains of Titegroup did seem more accurate...or maybe I was just shaking less. Dennis

 

[BuddyG]

Have you tried using stainless brass?


:roll:

 

[DGW1949]

I'm reloading .44 Special for my Lipsey 4 5/8" Bisley Flattop. I using a 200 gr, LRNFT bullet over 4.8 grs. of Titegroup. Excellent load for shooting paper at the range but my spent brass has a black stain on on side. Cleans up when I tumble it. I've read about a so called "Titegroup Stain." Is this what I'm seeing my brass? What causesit? Would a lighter or heavier load of powder prevent it? Thanks, Dennis

Don't know how badly your brass is stained. If it's more than slightly though, it's probably due to the load you're using not being up to snuff.

All powders have a certian pressure range wherein they perform their best. As a general rule, if you start with a light bullet, you'll need a bit of extra powder to get the pressure up into the correct pressure range of whatever powder it is you are using. No idea what that would be with Titegroup though..... I don't use it.

Proper neck tension and crimp are essentual, particularly with lite loads.

As I recall, the specs for a .44Spl call for a 246 Grn bullet. You might try that.

Hope this helps.

DGW

 

[WESHOOT2]

PLease consider that the "stain" is not actually a stain; consider what it is.........

 

[DennisE]

Hunter! LOL! Thank you for your post. I stared at the "stain" for hours and suddenly a light dawned and the stain disappeared and I saw...well as you know it was beyond words. Dennis

 

[Ruger4Life]

Clean my fired brass in the sink with dish soap and hot water. Rinse with hot water. Dry in the sun for a few hours, or the oven at 100 deg. The brass will still be stained, but will be clean for loading purposes. If you hunt you don't need bright, shiny brass anyway, right? Tumblers and media are a waste of money IMO.

 

[Rugers Rock]

I feel your pain. Some folks here may not really appreciate how tough this stain is, but, it does tumble out, mostly. Tite Group excels in light loads and practically empty cases. I load 3000+ per year .38 special with 2.2 grains under 125 and 162 grain bullets fired through Vaqueros. Never any unburned powder. A good tight crimp is important. Hope this helps?