Throw me a bone fellas.

[tom black]

I've picked up a nice Winchester 1894 rifle, made in 1910 in 30 WCF. Took it to the range this morning and with the rear sight as low as it will go and the bead pulled down in the notch as far as I can get it, it still shoots 5" high at 25 yards with a 170 grain bullet. Would a 170 grain down loaded shoot higher or lower? Would a 150 grain slug going faster shoot lower or higher? I know in handguns a lighter, faster bullet hits lower than a heavier, slower bullet. I really don't want to put a taller front sight on it as I prefer to keep it all original. Many thanks.
Tom Black

 

[Bayouhunter]

Tom I would think if you down load the 150gr or 170gr bullet to a starting load it may run at 1910 velocity. There has been a lot of improvement in powder since that time. I’ll look around I have a good 30-30 article on its history somewhere.
Good luck

Danny

 

[Bayouhunter]

Try finding an article by leverguns.com The .30-30: A Historic Overview
Seems UMC switches from a small primer to large Primer the year of 1910
The 30-30 velocity during that period with 170gr was probably around 1,900 fps and below probably 2,000fps. With the rifle length barrels.
http://leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

 

[Heliman]

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[Bear Paw Jack]

You are right, a heavier bullet will shoot higher in a revolver. I assume that would be the case in a rifle as well, but not sure how much difference 20 grains will make. I guess you will have to experiment. I believe that front sight is a Marble, and they are found relatively easily. Just keep the original. Not sure when they started proofing 94's with modern powder, not sure how much that could enter into the picture either. How is the rifling in the barrel?

 

[Seventy7rs]

I've picked up a nice Winchester 1894 rifle, made in 1910 in 30 WCF. Took it to the range this morning and with the rear sight as low as it will go and the bead pulled down in the notch as far as I can get it, it still shoots 5" high at 25 yards with a 170 grain bullet. Would a 170 grain down loaded shoot higher or lower? Would a 150 grain slug going faster shoot lower or higher? I know in handguns a lighter, faster bullet hits lower than a heavier, slower bullet. I really don't want to put a taller front sight on it as I prefer to keep it all original. Many thanks.
Tom Black

The front sight is incorrect. At that range with a rifle, the difference between 150 and 170 grain bullets at almost any loading will not be significant. Bullet drop is governed by the time since it left the barrel (d=1/2 g t^2), where d=distance of drop, g=gravitational constant, and t=time. Heavier bullets appear to drop more than light ones but that is really because they go slower and take longer time to reach 100 yards, or 200 yards, etc.

You need a taller front sight by the sound of it, to overcome a 5-inch difference at 25 yards. I'd try it at 100 yards first to see how far off it is there. A previous owner may have swapped parts to have it sighted in at a longer distance.

 

[Dan in MI]

I "think" you are going to want a faster bullet. (It's been a long time) Back in my silhouette days we used to consider "barrel time" when we were looking for loads to fix the issue you have.

The recoil impulse starts as soon as ignition starts. That means the bore is rising the whole time the bullet is going down the barrel. Less time in the barrel, less muzzle rise before the bullet exits. A faster bullet will get out of the barrel sooner. Which means the muzzle will be lower at exit.

On that same note, a heavier bullet imparts more recoil another factor in making the bore rise.

 

[PriseDeFer]

5 inches at 25 yards is 5 MOA. 25 inches at 100 yards. 77 got it, it's the front sight.

 

[wwb]

Bullet weight has a substantial influence on POI in a handgun..... but in a rifle, the effect is negligible. As stated, you need a new front sight.

 

[pete44ru]

I've picked up a nice Winchester 1894 rifle, made in 1910 in 30 WCF.

Took it to the range this morning and with the rear sight as low as it will go and the bead pulled down in the notch as far as I can get it, it still shoots 5" high at 25 yards with a 170 grain bullet.

I really don't want to put a taller front sight on it as I prefer to keep it all original.

If you keep the issue front sight with the rifle (I store them under the buttplate), it will still be all original.

You'll most likely need a taller front sight blade in order to zero the rifle, because the original sights were regulated to the ammunition of the day, and modern loads/powders are very different from what was available back then.

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[Rook]

I would just aim about 5" low.