Starline brass problems

[63November]

I think I'd be running 296/110 if I was wanting push things along, that or run 231, Universal, or one of the other quick ones at lesser pressures. The pressure curves of the faster powders are simply too extreme to be fooling with a bunch of variables which can spike things out. And I like faster powder loads so I'm not dissing them. But there's a reason why the data publishers warn about seating bullets to specific lengths in handgun cartridges. Case volume can be very critical, especially with quick burning powders. The OP's initial query might be an example of this.

 

[44shootist]

Speer # 11 manual

Min. load 231 8.6 grains

Max load 231 9.1 grains

Loaded both loads in new brass the other day , Winchester, Remington, Federal all shot fine no problems

 

[44shootist]

Customer service has been real poor from Starline, after 4 calls and emails to them and sending them samples of brass and loaded round 3 weeks ago, I was finally told they would send me 50 rounds of brass to try the same load with and see it it works with different lot of bass.

I'm pissed they could have done this them self, and even more pissed they didn't even offer to replace all my brass like any other brass maker would.

They admitted they have had some bad lots of brass, but want me to figure out their problem at my expence.

 

[buckeyeshooter]

Anyone have problems with Staline brass before? Took 100 rounds of 200 new never fired 357 I loaded to the range to shoot in my Blackhawk I've had for 30+ years and this brass was stuck in my cylinders almost every one when trying to eject them, some near impossable to eject they were stuck so hard.
For some reason the brass seams to have expanded to large or something?
Used the same bullets and power for the same load I have done for 30 years so I know it's not the load, had a box of Federal I reloaded at the same time that have been reloaded so many times I lost count with no problems what so ever with them when I tryed them so I know it's the starline brass, maybe a bad run? Wonder if Starline will do anything about it? have never called there customer service before but plan to Monday.

I just bought my first bunch of Starline this year. I bought 44 mag, 44-40, 45 colt and 50-110. ALL OF IT had to be resized before using or it did not fit the chambers well or some not at all. After sizing it works fine. I do not know this to be true but if they skipped a final sizing it would lower cost and allow them to sell it for less. Starline is $3 to $4 less per 100 than other major brands. Just my experience.

 

[mike7mm08]

Any brass should be resized before using. They are not skipping a step you are. Any brass manufacture holds their brass within a certain set of tolerances based on SAAMI specs. Manufacturers of guns ream their chambers within a set of tolerances again based on SAAMI specs. Sometimes the specs of the gun and brass match most times they don't. Sizing brings everything down to the minimum SAAMI spec insuring the brass will function in all chambers.

Not sizing brass can lead to other problems as well regardless of brand. Any brass will expand on firing. What happens if you fire brass that has not been sized and larger than min spec for the case,in a chamber on the low side of the specs? You end up with at best tight extraction and worse a stuck case and a headache.

Size your brass no matter whos brand it is. I have never encountered problems with starline brass never. It was been the most consistent highest quality brass I have used.

 

[Rclark]

Any brass should be resized before using.

+1

 

[Sam Summey]

I suspect the Starline brass is softer than your reloaded many times older brass. Production revolvers are not known for real smooth chambers. Combination of soft brass and rough chambers = stuck brass. I've experienced this in Rugers and Charter Arms 22 revolvers several times, doesn't matter whether it is LR or WRM, it happens. Last Bearcat I rechambered to 22WRM, the owner commented how easy the rounds ejected after I rechambered the cylinder. He said he had to literally beat the LR cases out of the cylinder with a rawhide mallet before the conversion. Manufacturers need to pay more attention to dull worn reamers if they are going to push quantity over quality.

 

[mike7mm08]

Sadly all manufacturers are in quantity over quality mode. Just so it works is all that matters. The days of working the best it possible can under all possible circumstances are long gone. Now it is up to us consumers to take the steps to insure the best performance of what we buy. It ain't right but that is how it is. Even complaining about does'nt help much anymore.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Production revolvers are not known for real smooth chambers. Combination of soft brass and rough chambers = stuck brass.

Hi,

Amen to that! And it doesn't take much to cause problems...

I have two .357s, a Bisley and a GP. I understand the GP chambers are burnished after reaming (or were? There was talk of discontinuing the practice to save a buck at one time).

While not "mirror polished" like a buddy's Smiff's, they were "smooth enough." Never stuck a case...

OTOH, the Bisley chambers looked like they'd been machined w/ a rock. There was no "post reaming" finish work evident. Fellow at the LGS--retired pistolsmith I once worked with"--told me that's pretty standard practice w/ Ruger SAs and suggested I add a "Ruger tool" to the range bag: piece of dowel rod and small mallet.

I did, and it's gotten a LOT of use thru that Bisley and several of my brother in laws Ruger SAs. That Bisley would stick FACTORY .38 Spls for quite a while before I got it smoothed out enough to to fairly reliable! Still gets grumpy w/ a .357 once in a while, but I don't need the "Ruger tool" for it these days...

Rick

 

[MidLife]

You definately MUST size brass before reloading. This applies to once- fired brass as well as NEW brass. I trim to length all my brass, the first time. once trimmed, handgun brass is pretty much good to go for it's lifetime. I like to have consistent length brass both for chamberring and roll crimp consistency. You can view a video of mine showing that the brass is definately require trimming for consistent length, even NEW brass!

Click below:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MidLife2011#p/a/u/0/NBUyMruT8zE

 

[44shootist]

OK for all you that didn't read everything This brass was all sized before loading.
I have Starline brass in 44 mag. and 38-40 Win I have had no problems with those, just this 357 mag brass.
Still waiting for the 50 rounds of brass Starline was to send me to test for them starting to dout they will send it been waiting two weeks nothing.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Still waiting for the 50 rounds of brass Starline was to send me to test for them starting to dout they will send it been waiting two weeks nothing.

Hi,

So whose data are you going to use w/ this new brass?

One of the things that bothers me about Speer's manuals is they don't list pressures. They cover this misstep w/ some kind of a disclaimer about how all their loads meet SAAMI specs or something similar. I find that bothersome.

If I read correctly, your OLD data called for a range fo 8.6 to 9.1 gr w/ the 125 gr bullet? And that's w/ a jacketed bullet? My "findings" below assume it is.

My Speer #13 shows the range as 7.6 to 8.3 gr, same as your #14...

Now, that appears to be a significant change to me. But, as mentioned before, Speer's been a bit optimistic at times in the past and it appears a lot of their loads have been cooled off over the years. AND, powder and primers DO undergo some changes now and again. So I checked against an old Winchester book (1975, when they were in charge of their powder start to finish) and guess what?

They show a max of 8.1 gr, AND give us a pressure reading of 42,500 CUP which appears pretty close to, if not actually at, MAX SAAMI pressures. A 10% load reduction gives us 7.3 gr for starters.

If we go over to Hodgdon's site, looks like they show the same 7.3 gr starting load, w/ a 125 gr XTP, 15% (??) less than their max of 8.5 gr (which shows a pressure of 42,700 CUP. Again, right up there bumping the line!) Just an aside, I've been "less than comfortable" w/ Hodgdon's data a time or two, so I keep to their starting loads until I'm certain what's going on.

All in all, if I were doing the loading, I'd tone things down a bit to current starting load standards and work from there. Too many people have good luck w/ Starline to think it's the PRIMARY source of the problem...

Rick C

 

[44shootist]

Going to use the same Data from speer #11 with the new brass 8.6 GR. 231 Win. Starline asked me to load them the same since it is a proven load that works on every other brand of brass but theirs so far.
and yes jacketed hollow point 125 GR
Starline did admit they have had bad lots of brass and that it could be the problem, is why they want to send me the 50 rounds to test from a different lot.

 

[MidLife]

how many Starline cases did you buy?
From the beginning of the thread, it looks like perhaps 200?
I assume this was purchased from a 3rd party? Not from Starline direct?
I can't believe Starline just didn't send you a full replacement and call it a done deal? Or, the retailer couldn't resolve it with a replacement shipment.

 

[44shootist]

All together I bought 250 cases and loaded 200 of them, I bought them at a reloading supply not direct, I was also in shock Starline line didn't just send me some replacement cases, this is a real big hassel at my expence they are putting me though, and in the mean time I have no 357mag rounds I can even shoot.

 

[Rick Courtright]

All together I bought 250 cases and loaded 200 of them... and in the mean time I have no 357mag rounds I can even shoot.

Hi,

Ok, I'm confused. Maybe I missed something counting on my fingers and toes here. What happened to the 50 cases you did NOT load? Were they sent back somewhere?

And do you not have a bullet puller? Sounds to me like it's time to pull some (or ALL?) of the loaded rounds down, reload a few of them with CURRENT data, and see what happens.

The fact you've loaded the "heavier" load for years w/ other brass is no longer a talking point once it can't be found in any of the current books. Something's changed along the way! Old data CAN get one in trouble. Don't ask how I know...

Rick C

 

[44shootist]

last 50 of 250 are of the defective lot, not worth the time or componants to load, pay attention here already wasted 200 bullets, primers, and powder, why waste 50 more?

Still waiting for 50 from a new lot Starline was to send me to test

 

[Rick Courtright]

last 50 of 250 are of the defective lot, not worth the time or componants to load, pay attention here already wasted 200 bullets, primers, and powder, why waste 50 more?

Still waiting for 50 from a new lot Starline was to send me to test

Hi,

Ok, I'm paying attention now! And it's become much clearer why Starline might be dragging their feet.

Good for them!

Rick C

 

[eric conrad]

Maybe I can help :wink: So you don't have to look at them bad, nasty fifty cases anymore, how about I send you a nice new crisp ready to spend five dollar bill and you send me them bad nasty 44spl. cases.
Eric

 

[44shootist]

Sure thing but you know the bullet Natzy's won't let you have anything like this in California the Anti gun state

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

Maybe I missed it, but what bullet are you using?

 

[44shootist]

125 Gr. Speer hollw point and 125 Gr. Montana gold hollow point.

Even pulled some bullets and knocked the load down to 7.1 gr. 231
Still same problem.

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

OK, so you are doing everything in the current manual, with the exception of headstamp, and no longer pushing the charge up near max and still have sticky extraction. Hmmmm.....

Shooting jacketed, so no issue with bullet lube gumming things up.

I use Starline .357 mag brass in my BH and have no issues. I shot my cast bullets (Lyman 357429, 12-13 gr 2400, lubed with Carnauba Red).

Can you mike some of the fired brass?

I am assuming other headstamps give no issues with that load in that gun, right?

 

[WESHOOT2]

Anyone can make a mistake.

 

[44shootist]

Finally recieved 50 rounds of brass from Starline yesterday they asked me to load same as the others and test them, they feel the brass I had trouble with was from a bad lot and this will say for sure, they are now sized, chamfered, expanded, and primed just like the last rounds ready to be charged and have the bullets seated and crimped, they will be taken to the range tomorrow and fired.

They will be fired from the same revolver as before a Ruger Blackhawk made in 1979, Stainless steel 6 1/2" barrel, it is a clean spotless gun bought by me new has very little use and well maintained NO carbon build up what so ever in the cylinder has always been cleaned right after every use all cylinders always brushed.

 

[WESHOOT2]

(heat treatment?)
(alloy?)
(dimensions?)

Questions; no answers.

 

[Rick Courtright]

(heat treatment?)
(alloy?)
(dimensions?)

Questions; no answers.

Hi,

Interesting that Starline aparently didn't want any cases back... were I a mfr, I'd want some of my supposedly defective product back to do my own testing, not rely solely on "field testing" by a customer.

Hmmm????

Rick C

 

[WESHOOT2]

Maybe they've already ID'd the bad lot?

 

[Rick Courtright]

Maybe they've already ID'd the bad lot?

Hi,

Could be, though when I've bought Starline in bulk from a third party, it was tossed in plain brown boxes w/ no ID info other than caliber and quantity... ???

I have some straight from Starline here somewhere I'd have to check to see if there's anything more definitive.

Rick C

 

[44shootist]

I did send a lot of samples of my brass back to Starline as they asked as well as loaded samples, and fired samples, they were all looked at before this test brass was sent out to me,

All 50 rounds were loaded and fired.
loaded 30 rounds with Win 231 8.6 grs. 20 rounds with Win. 231 7.6 grs.
all with Montna Gold bullets 125 gr. hollow points.

Results were:
30 rounds with 8.6 grs. all fired fine 8 were a little sticky to eject but still ejected fine.

20 rounds with 7.6 grs. all fired fine 5 were a little sticky but ejected fine, 1 round a little stuck but ejected with some extra pressure.

Up date: now Starline wants more loaded rounds to sample and send some to Hodgdon for pressure testing, sounds cool Hodgdon checking out rounds I loaded.