Something I was wondering about

[caryc]

There was a story a while back about a lady cop that shot someone thinking she had pulled her stun gun. This was just mentioned on another forum so, I was wondering, do leo's wear their actual weapon and their stun gun on the same side of the body? It just seems like it would be hard to do to mistake your real weapon for a stun gun.

I know she is now in jail. I'm not asking anything about whether the sentence was right or wrong. I'm just wondering how that mistake could have happened. Mistake or not, she still killed someone.

 

[Bob Wright]

In my opinion, a stun gun should neve be carried anywhere near the gun position. If the service pistol is on the near hip, then the stun gun should be in maybe a shoulder/crossdraw position. Seems to me the department policy might be partially liable.

Bob Wright

 

[Xrayist]

If I remember right, the department she worked for mandated that the Taser be worn on the opposite side of the duty weapon. It is my understanding that most other departments have the same, or similar, rules.

 

[caryc]

In my opinion, a stun gun should neve be carried anywhere near the gun position. If the service pistol is on the near hip, then the stun gun should be in maybe a shoulder/crossdraw position. Seems to me the department policy might be partially liable.

Bob Wright

I agree with you Bob but, you are talking common sense here. There seems to be a shortage of that commodity these days.

 

[41Dude]

Same thing out here. Taser opposite side from service weapon. Not sure how you would grab the wrong one. But I have never worked law enforcement. Crazy things can happen under stress.

 

[REB]

I have several LEO friends and they all carry their taser on the opposite side.

 

[caryc]

Thanks guys, that's pretty much what I expected to hear. I guess that's why she is sitting in prison now. No excuse.

 

[coach]

Similar to the Derek Chauven case though, if the person would have complied with the police, no one would have been hurt.

 

[contender]

In my son’s department, tasers are on the opposite side of the dominant hand. Often times officers will have them set up like a cross draw, with the butt forward.

Yes, stress can cause a lot of strange things to happen. But if a person does a lot of physical practice doing anything, they will develop motor memory skills that will help. Just like we all did by learning to drive. Repetition often enough will create motor memory skills.

She made the mistake and is now paying for it.

 

[Bob Wright]

From my standpoint, it seems to me that the need for the pistol is urgent, that is, its a sudden life or death situation demanding quick access and employment. The stun gun, taser or whatever, should be less urgent, therefore more diliberate thought/action should be the case.
Does that make any sense?

Bob Wright

 

[Dave Schwaab]

I don't Remember the officer's name or department, but I do remember the event, and seeing the b0dy-cam footage. Her taser WAS carried on the side opposite her firearm. She had several years service at the time, so there really should have been no confusion, The taser she carried was also bright yellow, so she should have noticed THAT in her hand. Still, she made the mistake in the heat of the moment, can be heard shouting, "Taser, taser, taser" before firing, and then, "Oh God" after realizing it was a gun she had just fired.

I DO believe she made the mistake honestly, but, with her training and experience, she SHOULDN"T have. A truly sad situation. She will be scarred for life with that man's blood on her hands, and will never work in law enforcement again.

 

[caryc]

How many times has this happened before? As far as I am concerned, it has never happened before in the history of policing. It sounds like something was badly missed in her psych evaluation. It just shouldn't have happened. She just wasn't prepared to handle an emergency situation.

 

[GasGuzzler]

They're usually yellow too. Seems like a tough mistake.

 

[WV460hunter]

There was a story a while back about a lady cop that shot someone thinking she had pulled her stun gun. This was just mentioned on another forum so, I was wondering, do leo's wear their actual weapon and their stun gun on the same side of the body? It just seems like it would be hard to do to mistake your real weapon for a stun gun.

I know she is now in jail. I'm not asking anything about whether the sentence was right or wrong. I'm just wondering how that mistake could have happened. Mistake or not, she still killed someone.

This is one of the main reasons I left in 05' from the force. The liabilities were so high that the meager pay I was receiving was not worth the risk to myself nor the livelihood and welfare or my family.When a tragic mistake like this occurs this helps to reinforce my decision.

 

[caryc]

This is one of the main reasons I left in 05' from the force. The liabilities were so high that the meager pay I was receiving was not worth the risk to myself nor the livelihood and welfare or my family.When a tragic mistake like this occurs this helps to reinforce my decision.

On Newsmax the other day, they were talking about cops salaries. They said that UPS drivers now make $100k per year. That was like 40% more than the cops make. Hard to believe isn't it? That "defund the police" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Any time I get close enough to a cop they always get a "Thank You for your service" from me. And, they always seem surprised to hear it. That's a real shame. Of course I do the same for any first responders.

 

[el caminero]

There was a story a while back about a lady cop that shot someone thinking she had pulled her stun gun. This was just mentioned on another forum so, I was wondering, do leo's wear their actual weapon and their stun gun on the same side of the body? It just seems like it would be hard to do to mistake your real weapon for a stun gun.

I know she is now in jail. I'm not asking anything about whether the sentence was right or wrong. I'm just wondering how that mistake could have happened. Mistake or not, she still killed someone.

There was a LOT of noise at the time about how can you confuse a gun with a stun, especially revolving around the daft "fact" that the grips are nothing alike. Some stun handles are too much similar to some firearms grips. And some people may never get enough training for a particular situation, especially during a transitional phase (new equipment).

 

[blume357]

Just saw this discussion... my question is how did 'they' find out she made the mistake?
Anybody have a link to the original report... with the understanding I will question even it.
What I'm saying, and take it for however you want... if I had done that I would not admit my mistake.

 

[el caminero]

One report had the other cop verifying she said stun! And then it was bang! And then itvwas oh shoot, that was my gun, but you know how the media loves to give you a piece or three of a 10 part story, and ya hafta listen to the m 20 times or 30 to hear all ten of the pieces they have cut it into.
For a long tome, the media has been "first out with even a piece of the story, wins the race! Facts can be added, and debated, later" and each outlet has their own .."sources"... and, of course, differing fact collections. Frustrating, and amusing, by turns.

 

[caryc]

Just saw this discussion... my question is how did 'they' find out she made the mistake?
Anybody have a link to the original report... with the understanding I will question even it.
What I'm saying, and take it for however you want... if I had done that I would not admit my mistake.

You would not admit the mistake? Then you would have had to justify that killing. If you could not do that, I think you would be in a worse position than if you had admitted the mistake.

I don't remember, was that guy armed?

 

[GypsmJim]

I don't Remember the officer's name or department, but I do remember the event, and seeing the b0dy-cam footage. Her taser WAS carried on the side opposite her firearm. She had several years service at the time, so there really should have been no confusion, The taser she carried was also bright yellow, so she should have noticed THAT in her hand. Still, she made the mistake in the heat of the moment, can be heard shouting, "Taser, taser, taser" before firing, and then, "Oh God" after realizing it was a gun she had just fired.

I DO believe she made the mistake honestly, but, with her training and experience, she SHOULDN"T have. A truly sad situation. She will be scarred for life with that man's blood on her hands, and will never work in law enforcement again.

She SHOULDN'T work in law enforcement again, and she should be punished in some way. But, she shouldn't be put in jail. I don't think the guy she shot was Ward Cleaver. If he had not resisted there would have been no reason to even taze him.

 

[el caminero]

You would not admit the mistake? Then you would have had to justify that killing. If you could not do that, I think you would be in a worse position than if you had admitted the mistake.

I don't remember, was that guy armed?

Initially, of course, the media immediately stated he was an unarmed and upstanding citizen. After that...i dont remember...i sorta quit payin attention as it was a back-and-forth free-for-all of opinions, statements, and variable "facts".

 

[caryc]

She SHOULDN'T work in law enforcement again, and she should be punished in some way. But, she shouldn't be put in jail. I don't think the guy she shot was Ward Cleaver. If he had not resisted there would have been no reason to even taze him.

There are plenty of people in prison for manslaughter. They didn't intend to kill anyone either. She was trained in law enforcement and should have known what she was doing. Anyone that scatter brained should not be in law enforcement. How would you feel if it was your wife or son that she killed?

 

[Pál_K]

This is one of the main reasons I left in 05' from the force. The liabilities were so high that the meager pay I was receiving was not worth the risk to myself nor the livelihood and welfare or my family.When a tragic mistake like this occurs this helps to reinforce my decision.

I know two who left in 2020 precisely because of the idiotic defund-the-police movement and the knowledge that the mayor wouldn't support the police. Certainly the local liberal news media and city elites were against them as well.

 

[jimbo1096]

She got rattled and something happened that was unexpected and she used her dominant hand to reach for a defensive weapon. Her brain just didn’t kick in to say it was a non-lethal event.
One of those things you can’t take back.
I would like to see the video before condemning her.

 

[GypsmJim]

There are plenty of people in prison for manslaughter. They didn't intend to kill anyone either. She was trained in law enforcement and should have known what she was doing. Anyone that scatter brained should not be in law enforcement. How would you feel if it was your wife or son that she killed?

I agree, and that's what I said.

And yes, if it had been my wife I would be absolutely devastated.

HOWEVER, I saw the video back then. The perpetrator acted in a violent manner. If it had actually been my wife, she would have said "Yes Sir, OK Sir.", and did what the officer told her to do.

I am saddened by all of the police issues that come up every day. And I abhor it when a police officers do dastardly things. BUT, many of the incidents are simply bad people that are daring the police to perform suicide by cop.

 

[Garth69]

She SHOULDN'T work in law enforcement again, and she should be punished in some way. But, she shouldn't be put in jail. I don't think the guy she shot was Ward Cleaver. If he had not resisted there would have been no reason to even taze him.

if he hadn't resisted.......that groups main reason for getting shot.........running from the Pow-leese.

 

[Garth69]

In my son's department, tasers are on the opposite side of the dominant hand. Often times officers will have them set up like a cross draw, with the butt forward.

Yes, stress can cause a lot of strange things to happen. But if a person does a lot of physical practice doing anything, they will develop motor memory skills that will help. Just like we all did by learning to drive. Repetition often enough will create motor memory skills.

She made the mistake and is now paying for it.

so put this "mistake" on your son and do you think he should have to "pay" for it too?

 

[el caminero]

so put this "mistake" on your son and do you think he should have to "pay" for it too?

Errors, like intended actions, have consequences. Mistakes may be forgiven more often than intended acts, depending on circumstances. Depends on the results, and the audience. Nothing is guaranteed. Multiple murders, as we have all heard the stories, can get out after a few years, and recommit.

 

[Garth69]

Errors, like intended actions, have consequences. Mistakes may be forgiven more often than intended acts, depending on circumstances. Depends on the results, and the audience. Nothing is guaranteed. Multiple murders, as we have all heard the stories, can get out after a few years, and recommit.

the very first mistake was made by the suspect who refused an officers order. He should be the only one paying for anything. Give the woman a desk job. She made a mistake. A law officer on these streets need more passes than punishments.

 

[contender]

"so put this "mistake" on your son and do you think he should have to "pay" for it too?"

When my son wanted to be a LEO,, I sat with him & had a long talk. Once he got his job,, we had a real talk about not becoming a power hungry, "Badge & attitude" type. I tried to make sure he understood the seriousness of what he was doing.
I'm proud to say that after almost 15 years,, and seeing his work,, and how he interacts with people etc,, he's succeeded in that.

And we've often spoken of the "motor memory skill" necessary to prevent such stuff. He & I discussed this case. He had a lot more direct info into the case via a LEO website. He said she was totally in the wrong because it was obvious she hadn't spent hardly any time being serious with her firearm & equipment.

But the main point of my post was how few LEO personnel actually devote a lot of time in the use of their duty firearm, with the result of them NOT being able to rely upon motor memory skill to save lives or defend themselves,, or in this case, prevent the use of the wrong tool.
I run USPSA matches at my range. I have several LEO's who compete here. And we all have discussed how few of their fellow officers actually spend time with a firearm other than the annual qualification. And how many often fail a qual, & have to re-qual. This is the mistake she should pay for.

And my son & I both agree that jail wasn't the best punishment,, but it's what the system delivered.

And to prove my point about motor memory skills,, find my posting from July where I opened it with "My heart stopped".

It's about a very good friend,, a NC HP officer,, who DOES spend time shooting a lot, and competing with us. he was suddenly confronted with a .44 mag being pointed at him. As the suspect fired,, he went into motor drive as we call it. In the picture released by the media,, just before he was shot in the chest with the .44, he's reacting without thinking,, and quickly drew & started shooting. He survived because (a) he was wearing his vest, and (b) motor drive overtook his thoughts. He's told me how he was trained to go for cover. Yet,, he realized he was in a gunfight & needed to act. Instead of turning towards cover as he recalled he was supposed to do,, he engaged the suspect. If he HAD turned,, the round that he took in his chest,, could have possibly hit him in his side,, avoiding the vest. He credits his motor memory skills with his ability to react so quickly.

That was my point.

But I've also told my son; "If you do something, and get charged with a crime,, and are innocent,, I'll fight with everything I have to save you. But if you are guilty,, you'd better hope they keep you locked up,, and away from me."