Some load testing for .357 and .38-44

[David LaPell]

After surgery I finally got out to do some load testing for some ammo I worked up back in the fall and some factory ammo. So I got out some wet newspaper to see how things would perform.

First up was some Speer 158 grain Deep Curls (Gold dot HP's) for my .38-44 Outdoorsman. I had these with 13.0 grains of 2400 in .38 Special +P cases. They did pretty well, went about a foot or so and expanded as you see here. Recoil was almost nothing compared to some of my other hunting loads I worked up.

Next up were some personal defense loads in my little Smith snubbie. The two on the left were some old standard 125 grain Hydrashoks (not Federals, the older stuff before Federal bought them out) recoil was nothing and they expanded well, penetrating maybe a foot. The two on the right were old Hydrashok Skorpion wadcutters, they also went about a foot in but the expansion wasn't as great.

Next were some more #358156 HP's. The first were from some .38-44 loads, 13.0 grains of 2400 in a .38 Special +P case. These bullets were a bit soft with some tin added, a BHN of about 12. I shot three of these, one departed for parts unknown, one whacked something and deformed inward and the third expanded well and penetrated about 16 inches. It retained about 140 grains of its original 150 grains.

I tried some of the same bullets, case in the same batch from some .357 cases with 14.0 grains 2400. They penetrated well, about 18 inches and left a 2 inch hole in the wet newsprint but they came apart. The heaviest one was 102 grains. The three .357's are on the left, the .38-44 one is on the right.

I tried some 197 cast round nose bullets in my .38 snubbie behind 3.6 grains of Unique. These things went a long way, and the one in the pic is the most deformed of the test loads. I'll stick with the Hydrashoks for now.

The last loads were some 158 grain Speer Deep Curls (Gold Dots) in .357 cases with 14.0 grains of 2400. I really liked these, recoil was less than my Hornady XTP loads that delivered the same penetration. Expansion was phenomenal, leaving three inch holes where the bullet went through. These went in about 15 inches. If I ever get a long barreled .357 I see these as a hunting load.

 

[rob-c]

david hay from a fellow upstate new yorker what county you from,myself steuben.any ways i have been looking hard for some reviews of the speer 357 deepcurls and realy the only thing i have found is rifle reviews.so you say you would like to shoot these from a long barrel pistol,what did you shoot these from? i plan on hunting with my 357 blackhawk this yr. so if you could give me some more of your thoughts on these that would be great.thanks

 

[David LaPell]

Rob-C,

I am a bit north to you up here at the northern end of Warren County in the Adirondacks. I have not had a chance to chrono these as bills made me sell my chronograph a while back. I got the loading data from the October 2006 Handloader article by Brian Pearce on the .38-44. His load of 13.0 grains of 2400 out of a 6 1/2 inch barreled Outdoorsman in .38 Special +P brass was 1,091 fps. I think the 14.0 grains of 2400 with the Speer's out of a 6 1/2 inch barreled Ruger in an earlier Handloader was something like 1,250 fps if I recall. I shot all of these out of my 3 1/2 inch barreled Model 27 except with the .38 defense loads which were shot out of my 2-inch Model 649. I figured with the Model 27, if the bullets expanded with the slightly slower speeds out of the shorter barrel, they would also do the same in my Outdoorsman. I intend before the year is out to see if I can pick up a Ruger Blackhawk myself with a 6 1/2 inch barrel for deer hunting, but if not I want to make sure I get the best out of my Outdoorsman as possible.

 

[rob-c]

so let me ask you this.at what distance were you from the wet newspaper,when you got the 15 inches of penatration?as soon as the ammo/reloading shortage eases up i plan on getting me some deep curls and loading em up,i have a chrono and will run them through it with my blackhawk..

 

[David LaPell]

I was a couple feet back, also using my Model 27 .357 which only has a 3 1/2 inch barrel and my Outdoorsman has a 6 1/2 inch so it loses some speed there. Normally I would be setting the newsprint back alot more but I can't do that with all of the snow I have. I plan on doing more once I get the chance. I hope to construct a better box than I had last year for more newsprint that I can make more portable.

 

[Paul B]

That 197 gr. bullet has to be the Lyman #358430 right? When I was loading ammo on a commercial basis, thee was an old deputy that just loved that old Winchester or Remington 200 gr. police load as it was called. He preferred it to lighter bullets loads. The load was discontinued years ago and he asked me if I could make up some for him. Of course, the mold was also long discontinued and I didn't hold up much hope finding one. I was living in Winnemucca nevada at the time and every once in a while we'd get to Reno so my wife could visit her mother and sisters and I'd go around cruising the gun and pawn shops. In one pawn shop there as a bullet mold in the case so more curious than anything else I asked to see it. It was a pristine #358430. I asked the guy what he wanted and he said $35. A fair price but I've never bought anything from a pawn shop at their asking price. I got it for $25. 8) That was one very happy deputy when the next time I saw him I handed him two boxes of factoru duplicated reloads with that bullet at no charge.
I too have a .38/44 Outdoorsman and some of the older Lyman books have data that seem awfully hit to me. IIRC, with the one I had back in 1957, I used something like 11.0 or 12.0 gr. of Hercules #2400 and the Lyman #358156 gas check bullet. The early Lyman book showed 13.5 gr. of Hercules #2400 with that bullet but they said it weighed 150 gr. so I figured quitting at 12.0 tops was probably the right thing to do. Personally, I don't give too hoot in hell what Alliant says about their #2400 being the same as the Hercules. I like #2400 in my .357 magums and while 15.5 gr. was a safe max with the Hercules version, 14.0 is considered max with the Alliant version. My gun is pre-WW2 (the 38/44) so I more or less don't hot rod it any more. I do remember killing a 250 pound Black Bear with two shots from my first Ourdoorsman. It had the old long action as does the one I have now and I prefer it to current S&W action. The went to a short action so target shooter would not have to pull the hammer back as far.
I shoot nothing but my own home cast bullet in my handguns.
Paul B.