Smart Thermostat

[caryc]

Got an email from Southern California Edison. They want to give me $115 in billing credits for allowing them to install a smart thermostat in my place. Yeah right, like I'm going to give them a way to set my thermostat where they want it to be? How stupid do they think I am? Although I guess there are a lot of stupid people around.

 

[ronto]

A smart "thermostat" is not required by my utility but if you want to opt out of a smart "meter" it will cost you $21.75/month and a one time fee of $63.80.

 

[Dave P.]

If you don't allow them to access it smart thermostats are kind of handy. Read the fine print they might not be screwing with your settings and
are just trying to make consumption for efficient. You can always change your wifi password and then they can't even access it.

 

[The Norseman]

I don’t know, I think they’re not that bad of an idea.

It defiantly would help me control the HVAC
settings from anywhere when I’m gone
for an extended time.

The savings alone would pay for the thermostat.

The only question I have is there a default
setting it goes to when the Wifi goes out?

 

[Dave P.]

Mine just uses the settings you programmed into it.
It's a Lennox I Comfort or something like that.

 

[Jeepnik]

Of interesting note, over the past few years my gas and electric meter were changed to ones that connect via a cellular signal to the utility. Recently our water main and peripherals wwere replaced, I guess 93 years is a pretty good life span. While doing this they also installed a connected meter. So now thy only need to actually read my meter once a quarter (govenmant madate to insure accuracy). To the best of my knowledge none of them can be shut off remotely, but who knows what lurks inside that hasn't been activated. And of course I have received offers from all of the gas and electric companies that would allow them to adjust heaters and AC's. I've politely refused.

Now the latest wrinkle. The electricty company was blamed for some pretty large and expensive fires a few years back. So that started what they call "public safety power shutoffs" if winds and weather reach certain limits. So, the same folks that sued because of the fires now are screaming about the shutoffs. A damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Seems the electricty folks didn't even think about folks that need electricity for things like respirators or medical refrigeration, much less little things like powered stairlifts and chair lifts.

There solution is to send out a questionaire to find out how many (read who) had these issues. They also slipped in a question about being able to leave your home during power outages.

 

[caryc]

The only WIFI at my place comes from my computer router. If I turn that router off there is no WIFI. I get my internet service from a company that is on the highest mountain in the Lakeview Mountains where I live. It comes from a line of site signal from their place to a dish antenna mounted on my roof.

Cell phones do not even work at my residence. I installed my WIFI router so my cell phone would work. I can make or receive calls through that router. I still have a land line phone anyway.

 

[hittman]

I don’t know, I think they’re not that bad of an idea.

Please reconsider this.
When your power company or state or fed govt mandates “voluntary” roll-backs ( black outs ), they simply dial into your house and set your stat where THEY want it and when they want to do it.
You’re just forfeiting control …. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[hittman]

PS ~ this has already been done in other areas. CA I think.

 

[gunzo]

Please reconsider this.
When your power company or state or fed govt mandates “voluntary” roll-backs ( black outs ), they simply dial into your house and set your stat where THEY want it and when they want to do it.
You’re just forfeiting control …. Nothing more, nothing less.

THIS !!! /\ /\.

 

[caryc]

Of interesting note, over the past few years my gas and electric meter were changed to ones that connect via a cellular signal to the utility. Recently our water main and peripherals wwere replaced, I guess 93 years is a pretty good life span. While doing this they also installed a connected meter. So now thy only need to actually read my meter once a quarter (govenmant madate to insure accuracy). To the best of my knowledge none of them can be shut off remotely, but who knows what lurks inside that hasn't been activated. And of course I have received offers from all of the gas and electric companies that would allow them to adjust heaters and AC's.

I also live here in Southern California near Hemet. I live in Juniper Flats in the Lakeview Mountains. We use to get those power shut offs every time the wind came up. Once it was even on Thanksgiving Day. But, I do give the Edison company credit for doing a lot of maintenance on their lines servicing my area. They have completely changed all the pole wires to insulated wire. They also installed big knife like switches on each side of the poles so if there is a fire they can just shut off the power in certain places instead of shutting off the power to a whole range of poles. Just in range of what I can see from my place, they changed out three poles. Two of them were not even wood poles they were like fiberglass. The pole where my phone wire comes from was changed out to a new pole with fire skirting around it. They also changed out all the cross members in the hills here to metal cross members. We don't have all those constant power shutoffs any more since they did all that work. All that work must have cost them a fortune but they had to do it to keep from getting all those law suits. They did all this not just in my area. Any place I can drive up here in the hills all have new lines and fire skirted poles.

 

[Jeepnik]

My point wsn'th that SCE hasn't done anything. It's that they have used an axe when a scalpel will do in many cases. Then they try to cover their backsides like any large corporation. I lost several months of insulin a while back due to a shutoff. I was gone for a few days when it occured. I was not reimbursed for the loss, much less the loss of everything in my fridge and freezers.

There is no way I'm going to let some outside authority control how I run my house.

 

[coach]

I wouldn’t know about a thermostat provided by the utility company, but the one that came with my new heating/cooling system is handy. It’s wifi connected with my password, so while I’m sure it could be hacked, I’m not concerned. One thing I don’t use on it is the occupancy sensor. The scheduler is nice as I like to set back the heat for sleeping. Also I can turn the A/C or heat back to the correct setting when coming back from vacation. I can also check the status of the system from anywhere.

 

[Fox Mike]

Ours is already 'smart'. We set it on 'heat' and get heat when the temp drops below the setting. Come summer we change the setting from "heat" to "cool". When the inside temp goes above the setting we get AC.The actual temp degree setting never changes summer or winter.

 

[Chief 101]

Personally I don't want anybody else but me running my house or my life for me, I screw things up much less than anybody else would. I don't even have a cellphone. I keep a phlipphone around when I am away from home for emergency but it hardly gets any use.

 

[caryc]

Personally I don't want anybody else but me running my house or my life for me, I screw things up much less than anybody else would. I don't even have a cellphone. I keep a phlipphone around when I am away from home for emergency but it hardly gets any use.

A phlipphone is a cellphone, is it not?

 

[Kevin]

Why does everyone think a “smart” thermostat automatically gives control to the power company?

I have the “Nest” thermostat from Google in one house and it’s very nice. It connects to the Wi-Fi and I can control the settings remotely.

Again, I control the settings, NOT the electric company.

Plus it’s got a setting that if someone doesn’t walk in front of the thermostat every so often if goes into ECO mode because it thinks no one is home. And no, it isn’t every 15 minutes. Something like a couple hours. Just general walking around the house.

I guess in my humble opinion, smart thermostats are better.

 

[TestEngineer]

Why does everyone think a “smart” thermostat automatically gives control to the power company?

Because the "smart thermostats" installed by the power company do give them control. They don't define what you have them set to, but they override your "AC on" to be "AC off" according to their goals. If your neighborhood is in a heat wave and every house is running the AC at the same time, it can break the power grid. So the power company wants to reduce demand by 20% during peak hours. Their computer sends a signal to 20% of homes to turn off the AC for 10 minutes. At the end of 10 minutes, yours turns back on and the next 20% of houses gets turned off, and so on.

The "smart" is that the grid dosen't get taken down by excess demand - NOT that you can change settings with your voice or phone.

 

[Swampbilly_2]

Got an email from Southern California Edison. They want to give me $115 in billing credits for allowing them to install a smart thermostat in my place. Yeah right, like I'm going to give them a way to set my thermostat where they want it to be? How stupid do they think I am? Although I guess there are a lot of stupid people around.

A lengthy accounting follows, but is MY personal experience with a "Smart Meter"...interesting read and lessons to learn:

Several years ago, I moved into an apartment...of course I had an electric and a water/sewage bill to pay. Many apartments have water/sewage included in rent...not this one; separate billing. At the time, 1-person occupancy...my water/sewage should have been around $14 to maybe $20 / monthly. First couple of months it was indeed within that range.
Next month, water/sewage creeps up to around $26...nothing had changed in my daily usage. Next month, I'm now looking at a water/sewage bill of around $38...then, next billing is $43 - What?! Again, nothing had changed in my usage...1 person living there and at the time I had to travel on business approx. 50% of the time. The month I got the $43 bill, I was GONE half of that month...no water/sewage usage of two weeks of that month.

That's when I hit the Leasing Office complaining...of course, they first point to a "leaking toilet seal"...I told her I knew what a leaking, mostly running toilet sounded like and I had already listened for that and heard nothing like it. Besides, as I told her, do you realize how much water would have to be running through my toilet to justify nearly doubling my water & sewage bill?! No way this is the toilet, but go ahead and send Maintenance to check it...which they did.

That is also when she told me that I had a SMART METER...I'd never heard of such a thing. She tells me that although I was living in North Carolina, a company in FLORIDA was reading my meter REMOTELY...and thus setting the usage and billing. I told her that they may have a ground leak in piping and that was up to them to check and I am NOT responsible to be billed for THEIR leak problem. So, they send Maintenance out and, as I thought, NO toilet leak. I told the maintenance fellow what I described above...he tells me, "Man, at my apartment it is me, my wife, and two kids...and our bill is around $27 / month...no way your bill should be that high" - I agreed I DID phone the billing company in Florida and all I got was denial that it was their issue...there was NO local office to speak with.
I let the Leasing Mgr know I had NO toilet leak...I had also gone online and found and downloaded full instructions on that model number of Smart Meter and how to read that meter. I took a "starting point" read on the meter and intended to take another read on it about a month later and compare that to my billing statement.
While reviewing my mail I discovered something VERY INTERESTING. The Water/Sewage company in Florida had mistakenly sent a billing for the prior tenant to me. So, I opened that billing to discover that the prior tenant had moved out with an outstanding balance of around $350 they were trying to collect !

My water / sewage bill arrives the following month - $65 !! I'm now madder than hell.

I brought what I printed out to the Front Office and told them what I was doing...she says, "Wow, we've never had someone do such a thorough job of researching the Meter." I told her about that delinquent billing I was sent from the prior tenant...she says, "You're not supposed to have that." I said, "Damn glad I do, because I will use it as evidence when I take somebody to court to sue for damages UNLESS this crap is corrected !"

I TOLD HER..."Here is what I believe is going on...the last tenant left owing $350 and instead of finding them to recoup the loss, this company, with their so called "Smart Meter" is FRAUDULENTLY inflating MY billing to get back the money from me...THAT is easier to do than find the other person and go through collections to recover it."
Of course, she claimed they never would do that...I said, "Well how in the hell do you justify these water/sewage bills for me, and I'm not even there half of the month!!" I told her to get the damn Florida Utility company on the phone and we had a 3-way call...I told them just what I told the Leasing Manager and that I had proof of their prior loss, with the former tenant, and accused them of committing fraud and extortion in my billing to recover the loss and it damned well better be addressed immediately or face court action.
I had to expend a lot energy and hassle in fighting this for over 3 months. So, the Leasing Mgr. and the Florida smart meter company (extortion meter) had a following discussion and resolved it by telling me to NOT pay my next 4 months of water/sewage bill...I would get a billing, but no matter what it said, don;t pay the next 4 of them. That was to basically "refund" my overcharges. Then, I would start paying...which "like magic" my water/sewage billing lowered to around $17 for the first paid billing after the non-pay months. And from there on...I lived there about 3-1/2 years...my billing remained around $15 - $20 monthly.

THAT was my experience with a so called "Smart Meter."

 

[GasGuzzler]

No
Just no

 

[blume357]

have a friend who has one of the controllable meters... they shut his Heat off for over 8 hours a couple months ago.

 

[Dave P.]

You guys are talking about two different things, meters and thermostats.
Yes the power company has control over their "smart" meters,
They do not have control of the thermostat ....unless you allow them to. Your Wi-Fi network is password protected
(or at least should be ) and you can control how devices are able to access it including the
thermostat.

 

[Johnnu2]

My house had the latest, most advanced thermostat installed in 1968 before I moved here. We had it replaced when it 'wore out' with a similar unit. Seems to work just fine without any help from the outside forces .
When folks talk about technology helping them out, I always think of the 737Max disasters when the new technology was installed to help the pilots avert a STALL....My guess is that those dead pilots probably could have recovered from even the hint of a stall all by themselves... IMHO

 

[Chief 101]

A phlipphone is a cellphone, is it not?

mine is not connected to any internet, only a fone, no wifi only a fone. This fone generally makes noise when the battery gets low and reminds me to charge it and that is when I open it. I have enuf stuff todo that one of thems fancy fones would get in my way....I doubt I would have it a week before I lost it or broke it...it cost me 20 bucks a year most years.

 

[caryc]

Some of you guys are saying that a smart thermostat does not give the power company the power to control it. Well, I've got news for you guys, in the email SCE sent me about it, they actually say that they can remotely control it.

Is that good enough for you guys?

 

[caryc]

mine is not connected to any internet, only a fone, no wifi only a fone. This fone generally makes noise when the battery gets low and reminds me to charge it and that is when I open it. I have enuf stuff todo that one of thems fancy fones would get in my way....I doubt I would have it a week before I lost it or broke it...it cost me 20 bucks a year most years.

OK, so it's not a cell phone. You say it is wireless. How does it connect to any phone signal? It's got to have some way to get the telephone signals. Is it plugged into anything? You're just not making any sense. It sounds like you're saying it just picks up telephone signals from out of the air.

 

[eveled]

I don’t think they are trying to take control of your house. They used to offer clock t-stats as a way to conserve energy. These new smart T-stats are the next generation of the clock thermostats.

Somehow the utilities get incentives to offer you ways to use less. It’s their way of offsetting their huge profits and look like they are doing the right thing.

 

[caryc]

Did you not read my post #25? They actually said they could control it and that if you let them install it, you automatically give them permission to control it. That is pretty clear to me, I don't care what you think. I don't believe these thermostats are the same smart thermostats the you can buy at the big box stores.

OK, here is a part of the email. Four degrees? Do you really thinks that's all they will and can do? "When you allow us" That says it all.

For maximum ease of savings, SEP lets you earn a one-time sign-up bonus of $75 and up to $40 in annual bill credits when you allow us to temporarily adjust your smart thermostat by up to four degrees during SEP events to help reduce electricity use. And rest assured, you're always in control and can change the temperature in your home at any time.3

 

[caryc]

Why are you such an ass?

You don’t care what anyone thinks. Why do you post? I gave you a second chance because I figured you were just cranky. Permanent ignore.

Thank you. I guess you only see what you want to see, even if it's right there in black and white. Selective reading?

Permanent Ignore? Now you really hurt my feelins'. I'm gonna hop in bed and pull the covers over my head and cry myself to sleep. I don't know how I can go on with my life. You know that if anyone on your ignore list makes a post to you, all you have to do is click on "read" to read the post. Anyone here actually think he won't do that?

 

[Paladin]

My niece, who lives in Southern California, jumped at the chance for the billing credit and allowed the electric company to install their smart thermostat in her house. Her house was never comfortable after that. It took her a while to figure out the electric company was overriding both her AC and heat settings remotely. Once she realized that, she paid to have the smart thermostat replaced with a regular thermostat. Lesson learned