single six box question

[what would you say]

I just acquired a single six this morning after seeing it posted online and the seller is local. The serial is 114XXX which I think puts it at a 1958'sh timeframe. Forgive any novice statements please as I currently had only new model Rugers. This is a single cylinder 22LR only. I thought the price was upper top shelf...but condition is also. For some reason the seller listed in 95+ condition. I am an experienced Colt SA collector, and this one is 99%. No turn line no bluing loss at all and even sharp edges are perfect bluing. The frame is a plum color now so maybe that explains the bblue rating. I'm not sure if that is desirable or not. Grips brand new black plastic with silver ruger symbol. I did not do much research but I do know old in perfect shape brings premium in most everything. Has been converted with original parts still factory wrapped. Original paperwork and manual. Unfired by the owner. The rear sight is not screw adjustable and is slightly more forward mounted in front of the hammer. My question is the box. Plain Cardboard. No writing on the outside with grey foam eggshell bottom side. Seller said was likely what ruger sent the box back in after the conversion. I will post pics of gun and box later but does this sound like a ruger box? Anyone who would preserve a gun and paperwork like this would have a box one would expect.

 

[contender]

Well, it sounds like you got a nice gun,, but not the original box. The boxes of that era were cardboard, two piece, (telescoping) with an end label noting the correct model,, such as RSSM, RSS5, RSS6 etc.
I would also check carefully for a re-blue since it has had a trip back to the factory,,, just in case. An easy way to check , (usually) is the firing pin shield insert. Take the cylinder out, & look at the 1/4" diameter insert. If it's shiny,,, it's usually original. If it's all blue to the pin hole,, most likely a re-blue.
The original grips could be hard plastic or walnut. Since you mentioned black plastic,, look at the emblems. The eagle should be recessed & black, with a silver raised outer edge. If not,, I'd suspect the grips as later production.
Pics would help a bunch!

 

[what would you say]

Thanks for the quick response. I will have to inspect close to see if I have a reblue. The frame is a very light purple but not one single scratch and no sign of use. That's got to be original. The grips were as you described and show no wear. Because the frame is in such prestine condition that it I feel like the rest of the gun is original also. So I am leaning toward a really good gun with no original box. Just strange since the paperwork is no doubt original. The age of the paper and documents is right.
I guess what I was wondering about the box is would they send it back to the owner in such a box . probably not but I will get some photos soon which will make all this much easier to disect.

 

[what would you say]

have to ask this question also... dealing with Colts, boxes are a selling commodity. what would a 1957-1958 single six box look like if anyone has a photo and does Ruger happen to sell repro's or anyone else out there? As a collector I like having a complete set even if its not the original.

 

[what would you say]

The good news and bad news. Good is that Ruger has superb customer service and quick information when provided a serial number. I just found that out. Bad news I guess is that this gun is a factory re-blue when it went back for the conversion in 2001. So, since its a factory re-blue do I need to consider a refund? Price paid is $550 including the tax. It looks pretty and was a factory re-blue, so I suppose that's better than a local gunsmith as value goes. Thoughts?

 

[rugerguy]

for that price and the fact it is reblued,converted,and add to that the price/cost of the box, you'd be WAY over the top...the original box for that would push $150-200 for a "real" one.......too many NICE, original ones out there...where you located at?? I know there will be a few of them ,and one in the box at the OGCA this coming weekend, and they are ALL ( 3) 5 digit guns, and two of them have flat loading gates!! two of them LESS than the price you quoted!!

 

[what would you say]

thanks for your input on this one Rugerguy. I absolutely hate returning a gun to the point that I might eat this one anyway. I returned one to the same dealer the next day when I found out the barrel on a Colt single action was not a Colt barrel. I told myself I'd be more careful to avoid the situation but here I am once again. You are correct in telling me what I hate to admit to myself .. way too much for this one. I'm in the Eastern NC area. I jumped on this real quick because its the first 1950's Ruger Six I've seen in two years locally. And it appeared in collector condition and no mention of a reblue when it listed on Guns International.

 

[rugerguy]

well one has to 'learn' sometime, its part of gaining ANY "experience",but if its something that came from the internet or shipped in from wherever, there SHOULD be a 3 day inspection period to "see" it actually is , what is was advertised for...once you get it, the dealer if he knows anything can see, tell and make an opinion, help you out, so to speak...he should be getting paid, and as long as he is NOT out the cost, or shipping, then by all means he should be on YOUR side........if its wrong, its wrong, it should go back...we have ALL gotten bit, stung, burned AND screwed over the years,and yessir part of the "experience"...sadly we hear what you just said, and all too often that YOU ( others) just do NOT get to "see" many NICE old models...we've been very lucky, and by going so far "back in time" we've gotten to "see" as well as "meet" other collectors, been to display shows, and have been dealing, trading, swapping and in MY ( our) case been in the business of repairs and refinishing since the late 1960's so have been a round the block, MORE than a few times,,,now that I've been retired,my capacity is more of the consulting,and getting things for OTHERS. More of a 'broker' as I collect very little any more, have had more than I really ever wanted....I am not the "collector" in the family,nor the "expert",as my wife fills those boots.........just tag along and keep the grandkids 'in line'....

anyway, do NOT feel bad,you won't be the first person who got something too good to be true...keep those words in mind, "if it looks too good, little lights should come on" and you back off , do your homework, read the books, make the calls, find out whatever it is you NEED to know and you too, will 'learn'...... :wink:

 

[louiethelump]

Having bought two guns from this dealer that turned out to not be what they were represented to be, I would hope you would find another dealer. There are gun dealers (the gun shows are loaded with them) that go to great effort to create false collector items.

 

[what would you say]

couldn't turn the sun back on this evening.. but here goes some indoor photos of the factory re-blued (in 2001) 1958 Single Six that appears to remain unfired and unmolested over the last 11 years since the re-work.

 

[what would you say]

 

[street]

The box that you need for that gun will not have the barrel length or the model number "RSS5" on the end label. When your gun was made 1958 that was the only barrel length made so Ruger didn't put a Model number or barrel length on the box. This makes the box a little harder to find and will cost you a little more money.

 

[blume357]

Personally I think you aught to suck it up.... sounds like the experts think you paid to much, but then the seller did at least list the gun at 95% and you consider it 99%.... what is it worth to you to have to go through the hassle of getting your money back and returning the gun?

I have a mini-14 I show off sometimes.... I have $1300 invested in it and it shoots 2ft groups at 100 yards... 1ft at best... what is that? 12moa... ?

 

[chet15]

Who told you the gun was a reblue? From your pictures I see no blurring of any of the letters in the rollmark, all the machining edges look crisp and the frame still has a light purple hue to it as compared to the color on the barrel and ejector housing. I also see polish lines on the frame and cylinder that are reminiscent of Ruger's polish technique on their old models. And, those light wear marks in the cylinder notches are also characteristic of a lightly used gun.
One thing that Ruger also normally did with their reblues is they would number the front of the cylinder with the last three digits of the serial number in large 3/32" numbers, in order to keep the matching cylinder with the gun through the reblue process. Sometimes they would also number the grip frame in an area under the grip.
The box for the gun would be the two-piece telescoping type, without catalog numbers on end (i.e....no "Catalog No. RSS5").
Chet15

 

[rugerguy]

Nice pictures, and typical of the what USED to be normal factory reblue, nice job over all but obviuosly the roll marks in the barrel logo are washed ( rounded) and the screw heads polished out, too shiny, and the loading gate is rounded off to the rear, a bit too much..but still a nice job, and if it was told to you that the factory redid it at the time of the safety conversion, thats my guess....and yes, you're 'spot' on as to the finish being 99%, but values are based on the %%% 's of original finish,and a reblue , is a reblue and many dealers price that back down to 60% for buying,trading..based on the blue books listing...is it a 6 digit gun, and the more common of the old RSS anyway,so I stick to MY opinion that price you paid is too high...but as noted earlier , part of the "learning " process................nice gun, and yes would pass off as 'original ' to MOST folks....... :wink:
( gotta remember, Rugers "finish" is not and never was up to the 'equal' of any given Colt or Smith & Wesson) 8)

 

[what would you say]

Personally I think you aught to suck it up.... sounds like the experts think you paid to much, but then the seller did at least list the gun at 95% and you consider it 99%.... what is it worth to you to have to go through the hassle of getting your money back and returning the gun?

I have a mini-14 I show off sometimes.... I have $1300 invested in it and it shoots 2ft groups at 100 yards... 1ft at best... what is that? 12moa... ?

You are not off base with those thoughts. The photos show how good the gun is. Really its as New, and the seller never said he had the box. It does have the old conversion parts (probably some value to that) and the original paperwork. He actually knocked 30 bucks off asking price. once we deduct the 8% tax and considering the condition of the gun, I think I overpaid by the amount that someone would who wants this gun. My fault that I failed to mention when I told that I returned a colt gun to this dealer that I have bought many guns (maybe triple digits) so his integrity is not in question. In Colt dealings, one would pay an extra $150 for a desired gun and wouldn't mention it so I will quit crying, change my diaper and look fer ah box !

 

[what would you say]

Who told you the gun was a reblue? From your pictures I see no blurring of any of the letters in the rollmark, all the machining edges look crisp and the frame still has a light purple hue to it as compared to the color on the barrel and ejector housing. I also see polish lines on the frame and cylinder that are reminiscent of Ruger's polish technique on their old models. And, those light wear marks in the cylinder notches are also characteristic of a lightly used gun.
One thing that Ruger also normally did with their reblues is they would number the front of the cylinder with the last three digits of the serial number in large 3/32" numbers, in order to keep the matching cylinder with the gun through the reblue process. Sometimes they would also number the grip frame in an area under the grip.
The box for the gun would be the two-piece telescoping type, without catalog numbers on end (i.e....no "Catalog No. RSS5").
Chet15

I appreciate this information from you and Street on the original box style. I believe you guys have provided some expert knowledge to me some months ago regarding another blind purchase I made that turned out to be very much in my favor on a 22 single six Vaquero style from this same gun shop.
I am a bit mystified myself. Even with poor lighting, the plum color of the frame shows up and not a single scratch or handling mark anywhere. I talked to a guy with Ruger yesterday that ran the serial and said it went back to the factory in 2001 for the conversion and a re-blue. Also said it left with two cylinders. One would think that a gun kept in this condition, the owner wouldn't lose the extra cylinder since I did not get that with the purchase. Would a 1958 gun come with dual cylinders? The 22LR cylinder does have the numbers on the cylinder exactly as you described. All the metal is flawless, so I think its had to have work done, but it was expertly done. I didn't suspect a re-blue at first because normally they are obvious for all those reasons you mentioned. There are no signs of pitting, edges are crisp as a new gun... its nice. bore and cylinders excellent too btw. I have some older USFA guns, actually USPFA so they had some Uberti parts, and they have some plum tint to some parts and they would be from the 1990's. I don't know how long it takes for blued parts to get the plum tint color for a Ruger.

I forgot to get photos of the box it did come in. Just in case this is a box Ruger would return a gun in that was sent to them without one. Well, it would have no real value anyway so that doesn't matter. Would you say its pretty much "Happy Hunting" and good luck for the correct Ruger box or is there a well known person or business ?

 

[what would you say]

Well, it sounds like you got a nice gun,, but not the original box. The boxes of that era were cardboard, two piece, (telescoping) with an end label noting the correct model,, such as RSSM, RSS5, RSS6 etc.
I would also check carefully for a re-blue since it has had a trip back to the factory,,, just in case. An easy way to check , (usually) is the firing pin shield insert. Take the cylinder out, & look at the 1/4" diameter insert. If it's shiny,,, it's usually original. If it's all blue to the pin hole,, most likely a re-blue.
The original grips could be hard plastic or walnut. Since you mentioned black plastic,, look at the emblems. The eagle should be recessed & black, with a silver raised outer edge. If not,, I'd suspect the grips as later production.
Pics would help a bunch!

thanks for that info. according to Ruger, you were correct on the re-blue and the grips were as you described for the hard plastic.

 

[street]

[/quote]
Would a 1958 gun come with dual cylinders? [/quote]


The .22 Mag. Single-Six came out in 1959. Short in the production of the .22 Mag. Ruger starting offering the Single-Six with the extra Mag. Cylinders, and the Mag. Single-Six with the extra .22 LR Cylinder, calling them convertibles. They offered to install a mag. cylinder to your Single-Six if you would return the gun to them so they could install it at the factory. They said they could do this on Single-Sixes from serial number 150,000 on up. As your gun is under this serial number I would say that your gun did not ship from Ruger with the extra cylinder and would not have the extra cylinder installed by Ruger if you ask them to. If this gun had an extra cylinder then it was added by a former owner not by Ruger.

 

[Hondo44]

And the grip frame does not look like the 1950's anodizing, it looks like Rugers current finish.