Severe leading........

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hutchman

Blackhawk
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
865
Location
Benton City, WA
I shot some hand loads today in a 45 Colt Blackhawk. I used the Lasercast 250 grain RNFP over 10 grains of Unique. OT load info says their 250 grain SWC can be used over this load, so I assumed the RNFP would be the same hardness........but I guess not. I have leading like never before. It looks like it was flowing out of the cylinder.........

Anyway, I know how to fix the problem with the load, but I am just not sure what to use to remove this much lead from the gun. What have some of you used or would recommend for this?
 

comanche

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
79
Location
Austin
Get a Hoppes Lead Removal Kit for 45colt.
There is a least one other company that sells a kit but, I don't remember their name.
These kits work very well for HEAVY lead deposits.
Basically, it is a rod with 2 different tips, 1 for the forcing cone and 1 for the barrel/ cylinder. These tips hold a brass patch (screen) which will remove heavy lead deposits.
The kit cost $8-$12 or so.
Hope this helps.
 

bub

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
245
Location
NE Ohio
A real simple fix is to go to your local grocery store, hardware store, WalMart or where ever and pick up a pack of Chor Boy copper pot scrubbers. Make sure that they are REAL COPPER (magnet won't stick) and not copper plated steel. Cut off a few strands of the scrubber, wrap it around a worn bore brush and go to town like you would with a regular bore brush. You will be amazed at how well it gets the lead out. It will come out in BIG CHUNKS!

Just make sure that, Chor Boy brand or not, you use REAL COPPER pads and not copper plated steel. The copper pads won't damage your bore, the copper plated ones might. Even if a magnet sticks to them, make sure that it isn't sticking to the staple used to hold the pad together and not the pad itself. I found Quickie brand pads at my local hardware store a couple years ago and they are solid copper but had a steel staple in the middle. No big deal, you don't use the staple.

One of the lead removal kits would probably work better but, when I had to do it, I couldn't find one locally, so I used the Chor Boy idea. Worked so well that I just keep using it. Made me not mind using lead bullets, where before I wouldn't use them because of the scrubbing needed to de-lead the bore.

Bub
 

eme

Bearcat
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
9
Try getting an Outer's lead removal kit. Works extremely well, without working hard.

good luck in your quest
 

Big Bubba

Single-Sixer
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Dec 26, 2006
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WV
Brownell's also carries "Bronze Wool" in three different sizes. I use it and it works well.

Hutchman, I have taken hard Lasercast .45 cal 250 gr. RNFN bullets and rolled them in Lee Liquid Alox and shot them over 9 gr./Unigue. Seems to really help cut down the leading in the mid-range .45 Colt loads when using such a hard cast bullet. I leave the Lasercast "crayon" bullet lube on the bullet and simply tumble lube with the Lee Liquid Allox and let them dry.

Lasercast advertised that their bullets were guaranteed not to lead because of their "secret" silver formula the bullets were made out of. I always knew that was a crock of bull manure.
 

hutchman

Blackhawk
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Jan 8, 2006
Messages
865
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Benton City, WA
I called Oregon Trail today and told them about the problem. The person I talked to stated that my load was acceptable, it is in their Ruger Only loads, so the issue was probably that I seat and crimp in one step. I asked her how that could make a difference and she had no idea other than, according to her, "I know that they will not lead if you use a two step process to seat and crimp the bullet."

I am hoping someone can explain that one to me. I am going to try the same load, brass, and bullet with a two step process to see what happens. But for some reaon, I just can't see seating and crimping in two steps making any meaningful difference.........

And BTW, I got the lead out by using the supplies I had on hand. Hoppes #9 and a brass brush. It came right out.......
 

J Miller

Blackhawk
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Not in IL anymore ... :)
Seating and crimping in one step has no bearing on leading.

If you haven't already, check the throat diameters on your BH. Undersized throats and hard bullets are a sure cause of leading. Add on the bevel bases most commercial bullets have and you get what you got, a barrel full of lead.

Undersized throats will reduce the bullets to below grove diameter, then as they exit the cylinder the burning powder flows around the bevel bases and cooks the sides of the bullet. Since the bullet is now undersized the powder gasses can and do flow around the base and soften the sides. Leading big time.
Because these bullets are so hard, there just is not enough pressure in a 45 Colt load to expand them back to seal the bore, so it's important they be at or a bit larger than grove diameter to seal.

Proper throats greatly reduce and sometimes eliminate this.
Flat based bullets help a lot too.

Joe
 

Big Bubba

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
112
Location
WV
I have to agree with J Miller on bevel base bullets. I don't like them.

I have some Laser Cast .452" 45 cal RNFP bullets that are flat base, though I see LaserCast makes alot of bullets that are bevel base.
 

hutchman

Blackhawk
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Messages
865
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Benton City, WA
The cylinder throats were reamed to the correct size before shooting. I can't for the life of me figure why they would even suggest that seating and crimping would need to be done in two steps.

I have used cast bullets over the years and have had good luck, both with home cast and commercial. This is the first time that I have had any kind of real leading and this one is severe........but I stated that already.

I have company this weekend, but I will spend some time with this issue this week and see if I can come up with a solution.

I just checked......they are bevel based and that may be the issue.
 

Big Bubba

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Hutchman, when you get a chance to shoot, pass on any good information you come up with.

Bevel base bullets were made to help the commercial caster produce slugs faster and easier as they fall from the moulds easier. I hate 'em!
 
Joined
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I've heard repeated bad reports on bevel-base bullets promoting leading by not sealing well in the barrel. This has to be in combination with the hardness of the alloy and the "heat" of the load, but still . . .

Have you measured your bullets? If you have had the throats reamed to .4525" you probably don't want bullets bigger than .452" since most Ruger Blackhawks have .451" barrel bores.

JMHO YMMV
:D
 

hutchman

Blackhawk
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Benton City, WA
They measure .452 and will pass through the throats with slight pressure. They will not fall through, so I believe the throats are good to go. My guess is the problem is the bevel base.......

More to follow later in the week.
 

DGW1949

Hunter
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Apr 10, 2005
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Texas
Aint much I can add because Joe Miller and Big Bubba has you on the right track.

Anything else I could add has done been said many times, so I'll just skip to the bottom line....
It sounds like you either got's a bad batch of bullets, or the wrong bullet for what you're doing.
T'were it me, I'd clean the gun real good, drop the powder charge to about 8.5 and try again. If that don't do it, and/or the Alox don't do it, ya may have to do what I've had to do before...... And that is... chaulk it up to experience, shut the lid on them particular bullets and look for something more suited to your needs.

I've got more than one brand of big-name bullets around here right now that have been sitting for 3-4 years....because they either won't shoot straight, or they cause more problems than they're worth.

DGW
 

hutchman

Blackhawk
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Benton City, WA
DGW1949":1yaxzg76 said:
I've got more than one brand of big-name bullets around here right now that have been sitting for 3-4 years....because they either won't shoot straight, or they cause more problems than they're worth.

DGW

He he, unfortunately for me, I have several thousand of these. My plan is to load several sets of 6 each test loads this week and see just where the leading starts.

My guess is that at 10 gr of Unique, my problem is not low pressure.......
 

DGW1949

Hunter
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Messages
3,638
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Texas
......My guess is that at 10 gr of Unique, my problem is not low pressure.......[/quote]


Me thinks you are right about that. :wink: .

DGW
 

FrontSite

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
144
Location
Ohio
All good points above... but I've said it before and I'll say it again
Lasercast and Unique don't go together.. in any caliber I've tried.

Try 11-11.5grs of HS-6 with these bullets, I shoot them all day long
with no leading. If the pressure is correct, the bevel base should not
make a difference.

BTW.. Oregon Trail says these are rated at 1100 fps max

FrontSite
 

Big Bubba

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
112
Location
WV
I have some Lasercast 250gr. RN FP .452" in my assortment of different bullets. Mine are flatbase. After reading Hutchman's problem, I decided to load up some and give 'em a try in my New Vaquero .45 Colt. I have not tryed them yet in this new Vaquero.

First I used some Lee Liquid Allox and tumbled lubed them. I loaded them over 8.5gr. /Unigue and went out and shot 20 rounds. No bore leading. two passes with a dry bronze brush and the barrel looked like it had never been fired. Shot to point of aim and very good grouping.

I have been using the Remington 250 RNFP with 8gr./Unigue in my two New Vaqueros in .45 Colt. This load shot shot just as good if not better.

Sometimes guns of the same brand can really be particular about what load they like and don't like. It can really get frustrating at times.
 
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