Severe leading........

[c.r.]

hutchman, i'd be curious if you were to drop down to ~9.2 grains of unique shooting those oregon trail bullets.

I shot around 1k of their round nose 250 grain using between 9 and 9.5 grains of unique with no major signs of leading.

I'm now working on a 1k order of the 255 SWC. 9.2 grains just makes those bullets shoot so well in both of my 45's I really haven't tried much higher. I did run 16.2 grain of 2400 and it shot lights out in the 5 1/2", but not so well in my 4 5/8".

neither of the loads are monsters 950 - 1k fps.....very pleasant.

~c.r.

 

[hutchman]

My mother-in-law has been here for the last two weeks so I have not been able to any reloading. I may try tonight, or if not I will have to wait until Friday due to some work on my garage. One way or the other, I will try to down load some and see where the leading stops.

I really appreciate all the suggestions and loads..........

I am treating this as a learning experience......sometimes the learning comes harder than others!

 

[wavehopr]

"BTW.. Oregon Trail says these are rated at 1100 fps max "

I didn't know that and couldn't find that on their website. I'm shooting them > 1300fps and get no leading. I wish you hadn't told me.

Your bullet is too little. BB has nothing to do with your problem.

I believe if you read this short article by Glen Fryxell, you may find the answer to your problem.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCommentsCBAlloys.htm

and bub knows how to get lead out.

 

[yankee7809]

I had a .45 Colt Ruger lead up like you wouldn't believe on standard Winchester lead loads. It took all of a Saturday afternoon to clean the bore and front of the cylinder. I realize now that it must have been the throats but that was back before the internet!
I'm not as into the .45s as I was then, but went back to mostly my .44s. And with those I won't use over 7.5 or so of Unique with 240 gr. swaged lead. My goal is to not be cleaning longer than the range session.

 

[454PB]

I always seat and crimp in two separate steps. Doing both at once can shave a sliver of lead off the bullet as the moving case is being crimped.

This may not be the cause of leading, but it certainly deforms the cast bullet and reduces accuracy, plus you have that little ring of smeared lead at each crimp. Seating and crimping in two steps also gives you a much better "feel" for the amount of crimp being applied.

Give it a try, you may be surprised!

 

[pvtschultz]

I vote for switching to a slower powder. I was working on some warmer Universal loads and started getting leading at ~9 grains. I backed it off to 7.3 gr (most accurate, easy to shoot) and bought a pound of H4227. 20 grains of that makes for a very nice shooting round. HS6 would work very well for what you are trying to do as well.

 

[hutchman]

I am prevented from getting to my reloading bench for and extra day due to a remodel. So it appears that Monday will be the day.......crap.

 

[hutchman]

I was finally able to get to the bench this morning. I had actually shot 2 different loads the day I experienced the severe leading.

1. 10 gr of Unique

2. 9.2 grains of 231

The 10 grains of Unique is right in the middle of the published load range and the 231 load is slightly under a "Ruger Only" published load.

I pulled a random bullet from each this morning and found them to be right on as far as charge. So the plan now is to shoot both loads again and determine which is the culprit, or maybe both......

I am wondering if the problem is the beveled base bullet since the leading starts in the cylinder?

I am also planning to load these bullets to a lower level and see just where the leading starts.

 

[Big Bubba]

Hutchman, keep us posted as to the results. I am really curious as to the culprit.

 

[marlin1881]

Strangely enough, I've had this same issue with the 44Mag shooting Lasercast 240SWC bullets, with the green crayon lube. With mid-leve loads, I would get severe leading, and I could find pieces of lube on a paper target at 25 yds. Since the BHN of these bullets is > 20, I decided to try an load them up a bit, and loaded some with H110, as per Hodgdon's manual, for jacketed loads. These were some of the best loads I've shot out of that Ruger, and leading was non-existent. I was under the impression that H110 would melt the base of the bullet, but it didn't. You might try a starting load of H110 for Ruger-only loads in your 45colt. Might be surprised on how well they work. I'd like to hear about it if you try it.

 

[marlin1881]

In reading some of the other "Page 2" posts, there was a suggestion on H4227. That would make a very good test here as well.

 

[hutchman]

I haven't forgotten about this, but the weather and health issues have prevented me from getting to the reloading bench....it has just been too hot. This AM I went out and loaded 50 test rounds as follows:

5 each of W231 starting at 7.6 and increasing in 1/2 gr increments to 9.1 gr. The load I shot when I got the leading was 9.6 grains.

5 each of Unique starting at 8 gr and increasing in 1/2 gr increments to 9.5. The load I was shooting when the leading occurred was 10 gr.

And just for grins and because I am a curious fellow, I loaded up 5 each of W296 at 19 and 19.5 grains.

These are all published loads for either standard pressure or Ruger only loads by the OT Bullets or my Speer Loading Manual.

I plan to be at the range in the early AM tomorrow to try these. Report to follow.

In addition, I spent some time looking at the spent brass this morning and found really nothing of interest other than a little powder burn down the sides of the Unique load. It was only evident about 1/4 inch down the side of the case and not severe at all. Other than this, these cases looked extremely good.

 

[Cary]

Strangely enough, I've had this same issue with the 44Mag shooting Lasercast 240SWC bullets, with the green crayon lube. With mid-leve loads, I would get severe leading, and I could find pieces of lube on a paper target at 25 yds. Since the BHN of these bullets is > 20, I decided to try an load them up a bit, and loaded some with H110, as per Hodgdon's manual, for jacketed loads. These were some of the best loads I've shot out of that Ruger, and leading was non-existent. I was under the impression that H110 would melt the base of the bullet, but it didn't. You might try a starting load of H110 for Ruger-only loads in your 45colt. Might be surprised on how well they work. I'd like to hear about it if you try it.

I have shot OT bullets in 357 mag, 30-30, and 45-70. I had some problems with leading in my 357 using mid range loads. The OT bullets have a BHN right at 24. I found success when I pushed them harder using some H110. I push their 180 grain BB bullet at 1600 fps from my M94 Trapper in 357 mag all the time with no leading problems. I ran these loads over my chronograph. I also give the bullets a coat of the Lee Liquid Alox for added protection.
Cary

 

[Big Bubba]

I have to agree with Cary on the Lee Liquid Alox. It can be that one extra ingredient that makes the difference in reducing leading with some loads.

When I use the Liquid Alox, I really have to make sure I put a heavy crip on the bullets, because this stuff will allow a slug to slip out of the case easier under recoil.

I like the Lee crimper with the carbide ring inside the die. This crimper does better for me than any other.

 

[hutchman]

Well, it was an interesting day at the range. We headed out early to beat the heat and got to the range around 0730 this morning. After setting up, I started with a clean gun. I was testing the 250 gr RNFP OT Laser Cast bullet.

My plan, as stated above was to start lower than previous, but not necessarily the lightest load published. I was also going to test the two powders used when I experienced the leading and try a couple of loads of W296. The results were somewhat surprising.

I tried the W231 loads first, starting with the lighter loads hoping the leading would not start until the pressure increased some. How silly of me to think that might happen! The leading started with the low power loads.

The 231 loads were as follows:

7.6 grains resulted in some lead with powder burns about 1/2" down the case.

8.1 grains had the same results except the leading was worse and there was evidence of lead around the mouth of the case. This seems to indicate the base is melting in the case.....

The 8.6 and 9.1 grain loads were virtually the same as these except that the leading got increasingly worse for each one.

Changing to the Unique loads, the results were also the same. The leading started with the 8 grain load and became progressively worse with each increasing load until reaching 9.5 grains which was the worst.

I also shot several of the original loads and the leading was terrible with these loads, just as it was 6 weeks ago.

I might add that I cleaned the barrel between each load and had it as clean as possible for each load.

The W296 loads were the real surprise of the day. I tried a load of 19 grains and 19.5 grains. I shot the 19 grain load and found very very little lead in the barrel. What was there might have been from the previous loads and even though I cleaned the barrel, it wasn't perfect.

The 19.5 grain load was even better. There was no visible lead in the barrel and that made me happy!

From these results, it appears that these bullets might be OK for very mild loads, but increasing the load with fast powder for a mid range load results in severe leading. They do not appear to be good for use as a mid range load.

However, put some slow burning powder behind them and increase the pressure, they seem to do pretty good. From now on they will be loaded with 296 for my use!

 

[Big Bubba]

Glad to see you got a good load to work Hutchman. Cast bullet shooting is at times not a "science", but more like an "art" or an "alchemy!" :wink:

 

[Cary]

I tried to work up a mid range load with the OT bullets using Hodgdon's Universal and never did find a load that would not lead. I changed over to the H110 which is similar or the same as W296 and the leading was pretty much gone in my 357 mag guns (GP100, M94 Trapper). With the BHN of the OT bullets being 24 they seem to favor being pushed harder. 2400 works good with them as well. Enjoy!
Cary

 

[protoolman]

Im a bit mystified, the seat and crimp is BS, I agree with J. Miller that is not a factor. Bevel base bullets have never given me much leading so I don't see that as the major factor anyway. I wonder about the alloy. Maybe someone dumped in way too much tin? The problem with tin is too much makes the bullets appear real hard. unfortunately it has a real low melting point (lower than lead) So when you shoot a bullet with way too much tin it solders your bore. Thats why 50/50 plumbers solder makes real bad leading bullets unless mixed heavily with lead. I'm betting on a mix up with the alloy?

 

[gunslinger_h]

I find that 296 has worked the best for me in the .45 Long Colt in Rugers. I have gotten better velocity with it than H-110 or 2400 for hunting. H-110 always worked better in my .44 Mag.. I never could figure out why one like 296 and the other h-110. Maybe it was the individual revolver. Anyway, I had no leading with either of them. I roll my own using nine parts wheel weights and one part babbet or linotype, whichever I can get. No leading with this in any of my revolvers. Hank.