Scope advice please

[cruzerlou]

As yall know, I've spent a lot of money building my M1A "loaded" in to a long range precision rifle platform.
I've bought a N.O.S. E2 stock, I'm having Jon Wolfe , one of the top M1A gunsmiths in the country unitize the gas system, polish the gas piston and glass bed my action into the stock. I've installed a Sadlak National Match recoil spring guide rod, a set of Wolf springs, worked the trigger, installed a short Picatanny rail at the 6 O'clock pos. to mount my bipod and sling mount to and a custom made rubber recoil pad and a few other odds and ends.
Now I need a good piece of glass. Jon has a deal going with Nikon , they have a service center near him in N.C. and he gets great deals on scopes . I'm looking at their 4x16x42 SKU# 8495. it has their BDC ranged out to 800 meters and is set up for the 7.62x51 168gr B.T.H.P. N.A.T.O. round which is exactly what I load for that rifle . It has a quick focus eye piece, and 4 " of eye relief.
it has their multi coated optics,+ their ultra clear coat that gives 95% light transmission, Spring loaded instant zero- reset target turrets, their Spot On Ballistic Match Technology for dialing in a different weight bullet, a lifetime warranty and a few other things you would find on much more expensive scopes .
Jon says he can get me one between 300/350 bucks, they retail at $550.00 from Nikon.
I've heard good things about Nikon scopes and looked through a few and they look great to me , but thought I'd best ask yall before I take the plunge .
Please if yall have experience with Nikon scopes let me know what y'all think of them .
I think for the money it will be hard to beat for a long range tactical/ hunting scope .
You can see it here ,at http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/product-archive/riflescopes/m-308-4-16x42-bdc-800.html

Thanks,
Your Friend,
lou

 

[krw]

I have had an M1A loaded in the past. I can figure pretty close what you have in yours. there is a reason some scopes cost 350 and others 1350. I have 5 Nightforce scopes. They are expensive but worth it. From a pure optics perspective I like IOR's. Neither is on line with S&B PII's but they don't cost that much either. A NF 3.5x15x50 either mil or moa based would be nice on an M1A. Nice optics are like underwear, I do not wear Fruit of Loom but everyone doesn't wear Hanes! Look through all you can. Lots of good tactical scope info at snipershide.com. Good luck in your shopping

 

[wiz1997]

I have a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 on a Winchester Model 70 in 30-06.
Been using it for 5 or 6 years with no issues.

My M1A Scout has a Leupold VX-2 3-9x40 on a Bassett standard scope mount.
Been using it for three years with no issues. At the time it was all I could afford after the M1A purchase. Plan on upgrading soon.

I've heard good things about Jon Wolfe over on the M14forum, so I would think his scope suggestion would be compatible with the M1A which can be hard on a scope.

 

[cruzerlou]

Yeah wiz, you should see his shop and the work he does,a true master gun Smith.
He has a Nikom on a custom benchrest rifle he built + I have a laser range fonder, that with the bdc is way faster than a mil dot ...
I have a mil dot on that rig now, you need a ballistics computer a wind gauge a notepad to do your range calculations I like the BDC a lot better
Lou

 

[cruzerlou]

It's, right now its a question of money, right now I've got around $2,800.00 tied up in this rifle so I can't afford a top end scope right now .As I said from what I've bread and seen the Mikons are a lot of scope for the money , I just don't have $1_000/00/$1500.00 to spend on a scope right now .
I just need one better than the cheap one I have on it now .
I'll go look through one like Jon recommend and if its clear enough I'll probably gomwithmit for now.
If I can make center of mass hits out past 600 meters with it I'll be good.
Lou

 

[737tdi]

It's, right now its a question of money, right now I've got around $2,800.00 tied up in this rifle so I can't afford a top end scope right now .As I said from what I've bread and seen the Mikons are a lot of scope for the money , I just don't have $1_000/00/$1500.00 to spend on a scope right now .
I just need one better than the cheap one I have on it now .
I'll go look through one like Jon recommend and if its clear enough I'll probably gomwithmit for now.
If I can make center of mass hits out past 600 meters with it I'll be good.
Lou

Dang Lou, you should be able to hit body mass shots at 600 meters with iron sights. I know I did 500 meters when I was 18 :shock: :shock: :shock: . Oh yes, we have aged a bit since then. My problem is my eyes haven't degraded at the same rate. Right v Left eye. I shoot with both because of learning to shoot as a lefty as a kid but I'm a righty by physics.

Have you looked at Trijicon? They make some very good stuff. It is expensive though. I have the bible version on one of my ARs and I love it.

Keep an eye on Planet Optics and some of the other glass sights. They do offer some pretty good deals every once in a while.



Karl

 

[cruzerlou]

Yes Karl,i I can make center of mass hits at 600 yards with the M 1 a loaded with the match iron sights. The Springfield Armory "loaded" is an entry level 600 yard service rifle match gun . I've done a lot of work, spent a lot of money to make it much more accurate. I built a sniper rifle and I want sniper quality glass on. I need to be able to scan the bush at that distance and find that hidden sniper at that range you can't do that with the naked eye .
Think about it like this this rifle will shoot around 1/2 inch three shot 100 yard groups so head shots are possible at 600 yards if I do my part com hits at 1,000 yards are no problem but you need quality glass for that level of accuracy
Lou

This rifle is WAY beyond a 600 service match rifle .
I've done everything you can do to wring every bit of accuracy out of the M1A platform . SUB MOA semi autos are rare and don't come cheap

 

[737tdi]

Lou, I was just funning you. I remember back in the day when we shot iron sights at 500 meters and made decent kill shots on target. I could not do it now. It took training, shooting discipline and motivation to shoot those shots. Yes, if you want to do a head shot at extreme ranges you do have to have quality glass but you also have to have an incredibly steady base. Never forget that. Weebles wobble but they can't shoot. Head shots are an extremely hard thing to do at long distances. There are very few people that even try it. It really is unnecessary, a bullet to the chest of most people is a kill shot. Hit the target and the enemy is disabled or incapacitated or dead. He is no longer in the fight. The bottom line is take the bad guy out of the fight!!!



Semper Fi:

Karl

 

[wizofwas]

I can't say much for the scopes as I don't have one. But Nikon does make exhalant optics, especially for the money. So, if the scope works for you, go for it.

 

[cruzerlou]

I hear ya Karl , but we have 18x18" plates at 1,000 yards and it's a real challenge to hit them . Once I get that good glass on it my chances of a cold bore hit go way up . even on 16 power the cross hairs completely cover the plate . like you said its all about your base. form breathing, heart rate and quite a bit of luck thrown in lol.
My buddy has a Barret .50 and he has trouble making hits on that 18" plate every time, but when he does there's no doubt about it lol Ggooonggg!!!!! the 7.62X51 makes a barely heard ping lol
Lou

 

[GunnyGene]

Have you looked at Rex's video's about scopes? Some good info there: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJUaiRIEduNXoal2_PkBZi0vDCIcEPxUn About a half dozen video's covering scopes in more detail than I can list.

 

[cruzerlou]

Hell Karl , talking about our eyes going , I just took my 4X off my 10/22 and toped it off with an old 4x12x32 Tasco with target turrets on it. One place we shoot at uses chicken wire for you to hang your targets on at 100 yards with clothespins. 10 years ago I could use that 4X and hit those clothespins every time, now I cant even see them with that 4X lol
Lou

 

[cruzerlou]

Yeah gunny I watch his vids all the time so much info you have to watch them over and over again that guy can shoot!!!!!!!
lou

 

[cruzerlou]

Just so y'all know, the scope on the rifle now is a CenterPoint . less than 100 bucks but is a decent scope so long as you don't crank it over 10 power and it does have some cool, features on it . Red and green illumined Mil- Dot Retile, fast focus eye piece and has 0 to infinity A. O. on it locking target turrets and its held up well to the dual recoil of the M1A but you get over 10 power you have NO eye relief at all and things start to get fuzzy. It's find for out to around 400 yards , but get out past that and you start to see the low quality of the scope. I did zap a ground hog with my M-4 at just over 400 yards with it , but I think it was mostly luck on that one. The rifle will shoot , but the scope ain't up to the task.
lou

 

[GunnyGene]

Yeah gunny I watch his vids all the time so much info you have to watch them over and over again that guy can shoot!!!!!!!
lou

Ok. I review them occasionally for the same reason. I copied all his Sniper101 vids to cd a year or so ago so I don't have to put up with my slow net connection. Did you know that he's been fighting cancer for a couple years? Seems to be in remission now, or cured.

 

[powder smoke]

For the money Nikon are pretty good. ps

 

[gramps]

I have been looking to replace my old Tasco 3 x 9. Roland has convinced me it isn't the best! :shock: Needless to say I have been looking around. Academy has this Nikon 3x9 for $130. http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/nikon-buckmasters-ii-3---9-x-40-riflescope?repChildCatid=1510563. I know what you want is way better, but peruse the website for comparative pricing. Good luck Lou. Good looking rifle! Don't leave it lying around unattended. :mrgreen:
gramps

 

[martyj]

I have some Monarch 3 which seem to be very good.
The ballistic program you can match to your own rifle and does work.
I given up on putting a scope on M1a. I have a couple scope mounts and none fit the receiver properly.

 

[xtratoy]

Check out the Vortex line of scopes. Several that fit your needs. Check out what people who own them are saying on the internet.

 

[bman940]

Hawkeye, I do freelance PR/Shooting Event's for Nikon so I have a lot of hands on experience with Nikon's M-308 4-16 BDC 800 scope. I think you will be very happy with that scope for the use you described. I have 3 on AR's and bolt action rifles. Definitely one of my favorite scope's for some of the same reason's a few of the guy's brought up. Using Spot On and Nikon's BDC reticle allows you to dial in your rifle,scope and ammo to achieve excellent downrange accuracy. The guy's are right on when it comes to using Spot On, if you have the range drop the circle onto your target and pull the trigger. Much quicker then some of the other reticle choices. Feel free to drop me a note with any question's.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/M-308/dave2rifles.png

 

[gtxmonte]

The Nikon scope mentioned is a decent piece of glass for that money. Nothing spectacular, but serviceable. I have now, or have owned, about every brand of scope you can think of and long range shooting is what I do. I have some REALLY good scopes, like S&B and US Optics, also A few Nightforces and then down from there. I currently am of the opinion that the best glass FOR THE MONEY.......is Sightron. May want to look into them. Can't hit what you can't see clearly at 1000 yards

 

[737tdi]

Lou, I meant to post this place to you but forgot until now. I have bought a few things from them. They are a sister company to opticsplanet and I have been very satisfied with them.


http://www.dvor.com/red-hot-deals-on-sights-and-scopes-66-2016-01-11.html?nldata=bb8/9/b15ae371bc71770c58034266d3726f39&&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=scpsghts116


Take a look through their site. They are very competitive when it comes to glass and they have a great selection.


Karl

 

[737tdi]

Wow, what a coincidence. I just received this from Dvor. It is for Judy's MKII 22/45 I bought her for Christmas.






Karl

 

[turd]

Well, I'm not a gun writer or any other kind of expert, but I've been taking pictures for near 35 years with a Nikon FA camera and a varied assortment of lenses. I wouldn't worry about image quality from anything with the Nikon name on it. If it has the features you want and you can afford it, it will serve you well.

 

[ndcowboy]

I love the Nikon BDC. I shot a whitetail at 307 yards this year with one and a coyote at 247. Both one shot kills out of a 243. Their one-shot computer program is great.

 

[cruzerlou]

I have some Monarch 3 which seem to be very good.
The ballistic program you can match to your own rifle and does work.
I given up on putting a scope on M1a. I have a couple scope mounts and none fit the receiver properly.

martyJ, take a look at the Bassett Machine Co. mount , they make 4 different mounts two medium high ones and two low mount ones.
one style has integral rings and the other has a Mil. Std. 1913 weaver style rail on them so you can mount many different optics. I've looked these over good and it looks to be the best way to mount a scope on the M1A platform. My 4Th Gen Springfield Armory mount is good but the Bassett is way better .It's very solid and is a combat proven scope mount on the M 14/ M1A rifle.
http://www.bassettmachine.com

I'm getting their low Picatanny rail mount ,even though it only has one bolt , it has two steel dowels that index in the vertical and horizontal slots milled it the receiver and is guaranteed to retain zero to with in 1/2 MOA when remover and replaced , my Springfield wont come close to that .
The Bassett mounts very low so you cant use your irons , but being that it used only the one mounting bolt along with the indexing rods is easy to mount/ dismount and you don't have to remove or your replace your striper clip guide

 

[TCGuy]

Check out the Vortex line of scopes. Several that fit your needs. Check out what people who own them are saying on the internet.

+1

 

[ndruger]

Check out the Vortex line of scopes. Several that fit your needs. Check out what people who own them are saying on the internet.

+1

+2

 

[john guedry]

I have a Nikon Monarch I bought 20 years ago, based on the reputation they have as a camera manufacturer. (Never could afford on of their cameras.) It is mounted on a model700 Remington in .270 Win. It has given great service.

 

[cruzerlou]

Considering I'll be getting this scope for around $350.00 ,$200.00 off retail price and the facts that 1, quality is right there with the same basic Vortex scope and 2. The Vortex starts at almost $700.00 I think I'll be going with the Nikon.
I've already installed their Spot On ballistics app on my phone and tablet + they offers a free wind gusts app, you just buy the plug in wind meter into your phone and your set.You can input your balidtic information from your handloads and with your GPS in your phone get the atmospheric data your exact latitude and longitude how high you are above sea level current humidity and temperature and of course you can accurately gauge your wind isplug it all into the computer and it gives you your solution for your shot you can't go wrong it's much faster and easier than using a mil dot .
All you need other that that is a laser range finder and their more accurate that miling a target anyway.
Lou
BTW I have two other ballistics apps on my phone and tablet, one is Sniper Solutions which is a mil ranging program and Sniper Calculator quick takes the range Info from Sniper Solutions and spits out your adjustments for your windage and range in number of clicks you need to adjust to make a center crosdhair hit out to 800 yards.
It also factors in atmospheric conditions angle of slope of your shot and what power you have your scope set when you make the shot between the three of these things and the scope I'm fairly confident I'll be able to make center of mass hits out to 800 yards.
Lou