Ruger Vaquero (Talo Edition) 44 mag 3.75" barrel

[hot chili powder]

Need load data for 180 gr LaserCast lead bullets using Titegroup or Unique....have used 240 gr Lasercast but they shoot very high @ 25 yds, so lighter bullet @ faster speed would shoot lower..........any ideas out there guys?

 

[Flyover_Country]

How much Unique or Titegroup did you use with the 240 grain bullets? 10.5 grains of Unique which is at or near the book max for most 240 grain bullets at 1.610" COAL will shoot a LOT lower than a powderpuff load of 6 grains of Unique behind the same bullet. The lightest bullets I've loaded in my .44 SRH have been 200 gr XTPs and with 12.5 gr Unique (close to book max) shoots 6-8" lower at 25 yards than the 240s pushed by 10.5 gr, and over a foot lower than the Skeeter Skelton loads of 7.5 gr with the 240 grain bullets.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Use the same load with the 180gr bullet that you used for the 240gr bullets and see what the difference is.
10.0gr of Titegroup is Max for a 240gr LSWC. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
BTW, I would find those loads to be a real handful in that gun. I would also disagree somewhat in the 'faster is lower' theory. I will just say lighter recoil with lighter bullets has always shot lower for me.

 

[Slenk]

In my Ruger Vaquero (Talo Edition) 44 mag 3.75" barrel . I am shooting 9.3 gr. of Universal behind a 250 gr. CSWC K. bullet from a RCBS mold. Very easy shooting and accurate to point of aim.

 

[hot chili powder]

Hodgdon data says 6.6 grs Titegroup max with 180gr hardcast lead bullet, want lighter loads so will try 6 grs & go from there, not much load data out there for 180 gr lead bullets. Hotter loads with the Birdshead grip on this 44 mag are a handful, milder is more fun to shoot. Keep the info coming, thanks!

 

[Slenk]

Try reloading for 44 special in 44 magnum brass will give you nice light loads.
from Hodgdon site.
Loads will be a little slower in Magnum Brass.
185gr cast
Hodgdon Universal .430" 1.400" 5.4gr. 823fps. 7,700 CUP 6.4gr. 1,031fps. 13,900 CUP

Hodgdon Titegroup .430" 1.400" 4.0gr. 819fps. 6,600 CUP 5.5gr. 1,025fps. 11,600
CUP

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Hodgdon data says 6.6 grs Titegroup max with 180gr hardcast lead bullet...

I don't know what you are looking at but that isn't right.

The max load for a 240gr bullet is 10.0g grain of Titegroup with a LSWC.

A 180 grain would have a larger load as Max but they only list an XTP bullet in 180 grain. The max for that is 11.5gr.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

You must be looking at 'Cowboy' loads.

 

[eric conrad]

Take a look here. www.reloadammo.com
Eric

 

[hot chili powder]

Hodgdon data says 6.6 grs Titegroup max with 180gr hardcast lead bullet...

I don't know what you are looking at but that isn't right.

The max load for a 240gr bullet is 10.0g grain of Titegroup with a LSWC.

A 180 grain would have a larger load as Max but they only list an XTP bullet in 180 grain. The max for that is 11.5gr.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

You must be looking at 'Cowboy' loads.

No, I was looking @ 185 gr Lead load from Hodgdon manual.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Yep that is a 'Cowboy' load. 16,500 CUP is for soft lead cowboy bullets.

Like I said 10.0gr of Titegroup for a 240gr LSWC is max at 38,400 CUP. You should be able to easily go up to 10.0gr with a hard cast 180gr bullet. You don't have to go that high and there is lots of room for you to experiment.

You could do something like 6.0gr and 7.0g and 8.0gr of Titegroup and see if any of those shoot point of aim.
Lasercast bullets are usually very hard.

 

[Flyover_Country]

Hodgdon data says 6.6 grs Titegroup max with 180gr hardcast lead bullet...

I don't know what you are looking at but that isn't right.

The max load for a 240gr bullet is 10.0g grain of Titegroup with a LSWC.

A 180 grain would have a larger load as Max but they only list an XTP bullet in 180 grain. The max for that is 11.5gr.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

You must be looking at 'Cowboy' loads.

All of the published loads for 180 grain lead bullets and Titegroup or Unique I can find are for cowboy loads.

- Hornady 10th shows 7.5 gr of Titegroup and 8.7 gr of Unique as maximum loads for their 180 gr swaged lead Cowboy(TM) bullet, with a COAL of 1.600". All loads except the Trail Boss load they list for the lead bullet top out at 1100 fps, the Trail Boss load is case capacity limited at 9.1 gr/1000 fps. They don't list a Titegroup load for their 180 gr XTP (COAL 1.600") but they do give a max of 14.4 gr of Unique for 1500 fps out of their 7.5" barreled Redhawk. The COAL and thus seating depth ought to be similar between the lead bullet and the XTP, so you should be able to approach the loads used for jacketed bullets, carefully of course.

- Lyman doesn't list any lead bullet data under 200 grains for the .44 Magnum. They list one using Hornady's swaged 180 grain bullet for the .44 Russian but it's even weaker than Hornady's .44 Magnum data with that same bullet.

- Alliant's current data does not list any lead bullet loads under 225 grains. Their 2005 and earlier data before they got rid of much of Hercules' "lower-power/faster powder" data had a cowboy action load with a 205 grain bullet.

- Hodgdon's 180 and 200 grain lead bullet loads are cowboy loads.

- Even with looking at different powders, I still do not see any full-powered 180 grain lead bullet loads.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

You already said you want a light load, so you don't need a full power 44mag load for your 180gr hard cast bullets. Just keep in mind that if you have a identically constructed bullets you can always use data for a heavier bullet and be safe as far as pressure goes.

What bullet are you using, or going to use? That should have been the first question. I see a 200gr Lazer-Cast bullet. With that bullet you could use anything from 4.0gr to 10.0gr of TiteGroup. I don't see your problem.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-22528%2B4294964630%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1&userItemsPerPage=48&persistedItemsPerPage=0

 

[hot chili powder]

My plan is to use 180 gr Lasercast bullets.....want a non-full power load that shoots to POA @ 25 yds using 6 o'clock hold with Titegroup, Unique or maybe CFE Pistol powder......full Magnum loads are a handful in this revolver, only can shoot a few for fun, then it hurts.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

'hot chili powder' The 180 gr Lasercast bullets in the link are very hard, not like the Hornady swaged bullets at all. You could use data for a heavier bullet (like the Lasercast 240gr) or you can use data fof a jacketed bullet because you are not going to go anywhere near the Max. This would be true for Titegroup and Unique powders because they are both used for light and medium loads. I had to look-up to know how low you can go with CFE with a the 200gr LRNFP which follows. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Hodgdon CFE Pistol .430" 1.570" 7.1 914 14,000 PSI 8.2 1,051 16,500 PSI
Hodgdon Titegroup .430" 1.570" 5.0 878 11,000 CUP 6.6 1,061 17,300

In summery you should be able to load those bullets with those powders from light up through medium and hot loads if you want.
180gr Lasercast with Titegroup 5.0gr - 10.0gr
180gr Lasercast with CFE ------ 7.0gr - 12.0gr
180gr Lasercast with Unique --- 4.0gr - 12.0gr

...and sorry I got you and 'Flyover_Country' confused.

 

[hot chili powder]

Thanks a bunch you guys, plan to try your ideas.....carefully of course....with my 3 powders, sure do love to shoot my Vaquero & am anxious to try these new mid-power loads......thanks again!!

 

[mikld]

FWIW, and an example seen here with the "discussions" on powder charges, I use this method and recommend the same to any new reloader; I pay very little (no) attention to any forum expert, range rat, well meaning friend, gun counter clerk, pet loads web site, or gun shop guru about any load data. While these folks may be well meaning, "trust but verify" and I have been getting 98% of my load data from published reloading manuals for over 30 years. in 1970 I had a squib but none since and I have never had a Kaboom. Coincidence? Prolly not...

 

[Jimbo357mag]

FWIW, and an example seen here with the "discussions" on powder charges, I use this method and recommend the same to any new reloader; I pay very little (no) attention to any forum expert, range rat, well meaning friend, gun counter clerk, pet loads web site, or gun shop guru about any load data. While these folks may be well meaning, "trust but verify" and I have been getting 98% of my load data from published reloading manuals for over 30 years. in 1970 I had a squib but none since and I have never had a Kaboom. Coincidence? Prolly not...

What do you do if your bullet isn't listed there? ...or you want a slightly different velocity, lower recoil or anything different than what YOUR reloading book says?

What people are doing here is helping someone read various reputable data sites and books and making up nothing, while trying to explain details on loading procedures not readily available. Sometimes it is hard for new reloaders to know how to investigate, to find safe loads, that other more experienced loaders can explain. Like the fact that the data for a heavier bullet of the same kind is ok to use with a slightly lighter bullet of the same kind, as far as pressure goes. ...or the idea that Cowboy loads use softer bullets and very fast powders for lower velocity. It doesn't mean that a powder is not suitable for a heavier load with a different bullet. The idea that people on a forum can't contribute to someone's loading knowledge is bunk. Why even bother to look at a forum if you won't use the knowledge of the people there?