Ruger M77 MKII 35 Whelen issue...

[Mr25-06]

So, I finally took my Skeleton stocked .35 Whelen out and shot it today. Thought about getting rid of it, but changed my mind. Anyways, I brought a box each of Remington 200 grain Core-lokts & Hornady 200 grain Superformance.

First shot I fired was a Remington and nothing. Just a click....held the gun in place for a few seconds, threw the safety on and proceeded to slowly eject the cartridge....sure enough...misfire. Dent in the primer, but nothing. I then took and fired 8 rounds of the Hornady without any issues at all. Shot great too!

I attempted one more Remington before I headed for home and that one went bang and hit right by the Hornady. I didn't want to push my luck anymore then that.

Any issues that anybody else has had or heard of with the Whelen's and Remington ammo? The dent in the primer of the 2 I fired was not as deep as the dent in the Hornady's that I had zero issues with. It also looked like the Remington's had standard large rifle primers in them, while the Hornady's looked to have magnum primers?

Jon

 

[mike7mm08]

First thing I would do if you have not already is strip the bolt down and clean. Possible it could be gunked up and not hitting the primer with enough force.

As for your thinking on primers I would be thinking the exact opposite. Magnum primers have a thicker cup in turn a shallower dent from the firing pin. The Hornady sound as if the primer is a standard thus the ability of the firing pin to leave a deeper dent. If the firing pin is not hitting as hard as it should magnum primers might be a problem.

Give the cleaning a try and look over the firing pin and the firing pin hole in the bolt face. I had a problem with a Savage. Of course I only discovered this when a deer was standing in front of me. Their was a slight burr on the firing pin. Under just the right circumstances it would slow the firing pin enough to prevent the gun from firing. There was also a rough spot in the firing pin hole of the bolt face. I polished everything and I have had to troubles since. Also if you plan to use the gun in cold temps I would degrease the inside of the bolt as well as the firing pin and spring and use a dry lube of some sort.

 

[35ruger]

Mr25-06

That special run of Whelens has a history of misfires.
I suggest you send it back to Ruger.

Good luck with it, 35

 

[guidedfishing]

25-06,

I have this same rifle in 35 whelen, same exact problem. A little searching and you will find similar. My was to the point that I would easily have 3-4 misfires for every 20 rounds. Did not matter factory ammo, or handloads. I did reduce "not eliminate" by neck resizing handloads only. Bottom line after over a year I finally contacted ruger took the rifle to the local UPS station and shipped it out. Three weeks later I had it back. The note said that they adjusted the headspace. (not sure how they did that) they also replaced the firing pin. The firing pin was noticeable more pointed almost conical instead of rounded. The rifle fired every round flawlessly after that, which I was thankful because this rifle is a tac driver.

My advice: Contact Ruger customer service (very good) find out where they want it shipped. I provided a letter explaining exactly what was going on. Good luck, contact Ruger and have them fix it. They did mine for nothing I was only out the time it took me to ship. (This is a known problem with the 35 Whelen and the limited run they did in Mark II)

Good luck
GF

 

[Mr25-06]

Thanks for the responses fellas. I am going to contact Ruger Monday. Any idea on how long they usually take on something like this? Hopefully it will be ready by Mid-November(deer season), but if not, I guess I will have to live with that.

Jon

 

[CP]

Posted on the Ruger forum 12-17-07

Ruger made 500 Special Edition .35 Whelens on Mark lls for Davidson. They were blue with sights and put up in the boat paddle synthetic stock. Unfortunately, a number of them had misfire issues and caused a lot of grief for some folks. I sent mine back to Ruger's hospital twice, but to no avail. Believing it was a head spacing problem, I gave up on Ruger and had a stainless Lilja barrel with the factory sight re-installed. Through this process my gunsmith discovered that trigger group was out of alignment causing the cocking piece to drag on the sear. He repined the trigger group, and I have not had another misfire. However, with the new stainless Lilja barrel and all of the smithing I had done, I paid very dearly to have a Ruger Mark ll in a .35 Whelen.

 

[luvmyruger]

Remington rimfire ammo is absolute garbage, with lots of misfires. Never had a problem with Rem centerfire though.

 

[rangerbob]

Mr2506, if your rifle fired the Hornady ammo flawlessly, I'd suspect bad ammo in the green box. I've got a #1 in 35 Whelen that won't fire handloads made with new in the bag R-P brass, but my loads made with 270 brass fire fine. Remington has some headspace issues with some of their brass and loaded ammo. I took the next bag of R-P brass and necked them up to 375 and then resized them in the 35 Whelen die and they work fine. When shot they will fireform to fit the chamber. With the excellent Hornady ammo available, why even bother with the green box stuff. Bob! 8)

 

[Boxhead]

Strange how they appear to have had headspace issues with that run (I read of many soon after they came out) yet got it right on the old tang Whelen's?

 

[Mr25-06]

I was dead set on seading this thing in to get looked at, but I think I talked myself out of it for now. I am going to take it to the range this weekend and finish off that box of Hornady that I started on. If they all fire correctly, I am just not going to worry about the problem for now.

The Hornady ammo shot great and is only $27 or so a box. Little cheaper then the Remington ammo around here. I have 1 other box besides the one I am working on and I will either have 40 pieces of 1x fired brass to reload if I get dies, etc., or I can pick up another box or 2 of the Hornady ammo and be set for quie a while.

I don't know, what you guys think? Sound like the thing to do or should I just send if off to get looked at?

Jon

 

[mike7mm08]

If you can get through a box with no misfires and at least one group from the box of ammo you plan to hunt with i would say go for it. Plenty of time after season to send it in.

 

[Mr25-06]

If you can get through a box with no misfires and at least one group from the box of ammo you plan to hunt with i would say go for it. Plenty of time after season to send it in.

That was exactly what I was thinking. Of course, on the other side of the coin, is that horrible "click" sound of a misfire when face-to-face with the 30 pointer. :shock:

Jon

 

[mike7mm08]

Yep there is always that. It is a horrible enough sound when you have a nice tasty doe standing broadside at fifty yards.

 

[GRAMPS 51]

Hi I went thru this with a new tang saftey 77 in 35 whelen and factory remington ammo I cleaned the firing pin and chanel there was grease in there but what I finaly found is that remington cases are formed wrong the shoulders have the wrong angle look at the hornedy and rem cases side by side after you fireform the cases it will be better [ if you handload ] but a cheap cure is put a wilson speed lock spring in it and it will strike the primer harder and dent it deeper even the remingtons will go off ask me how I know two missfires in a row on a bear :x

GRAMPS

 

[RJ556]

Mr25-06, I suspect the problem is the dimensions of the Remington brass of the Remington loads. I'll bet that if you had a case length guage, of which they probably do not even make for 35 Whelen, you would find that the shoulder of the case is a bit farther back that that of the Hornady ammo. Remington brass is known to be undersized in many calibers. If you want to check the chamber of your rifle, without having to send it back to Ruger, put a want to borrow or rent ad in the classifieds for 35 Whelen GO, NO-GO gauges. Someone will more than likely lend you a set for a deposit. If your bolt will not close fully on the NO-GO gauge, then your chamber is not the problem here.

 

[35ruger]

What did Ruger say??

 

[CP]

If your SE is true to form, it will eventually misfire with any flavor of factory ammunition. Federal .225 gr TBBCs gave me the highest ignition frequency, but I still had misfires with this ammunition as well. Obviously, you can end-run this issue with reloading techniques and also increase the ignition frequency by replacing the factory firing pin spring with a 28 lbs spring. I have done both, but I considered these things just short term fixes and would not own a hunting rifle that will not reliably discharge factory ammunition.

Davidson contracted with Ruger to make these SEs and I know that when this problem first came to light with these rifles that they helped folks work through the problem. However, it has been 10 years or so since this run was manufactured and Davidson may no longer stand behind these SEs-but it still worth a telephone call to find out. CP.

 

[Mr25-06]

What did Ruger say??

Not much really. I gave them a call and got a lady on the phone. Told her the story about my range trip and that I had found multiple sources pointing towards some firing issues with this model rifle. Not sure weather she just hasn't been their long or truely didn't know, but she said she was"unaware of any issues with that model rifle." "We will be more then happy to take a look at if for you, give you a call with what we find, and fix the problem if necessary though."

She then gave me the shipping address. I haven't decided what to do yet, but I think I will send it back to get fixed right away. I was going to wait until after deer season here in WI, but I have the old .270 or my .22-250 to take out.

I will keep updating everything as far as getting it sent out and when I get it back.

Jon

 

[TexasFats]

That seems to be a problem not just with Rugers, but with the .35 Whelen in general. When the .30-06 case is necked up to .35, there is precious little shoulder left for headspacing. Combine that with the angle of the shoulder, and you may have the problem that you encountered. For that cartridge, I prefer the Ackley Improved version. It has a much greater shoulder angle that helps the headspacing. I believe that the issue is talked about in the book, Cartridges of the World and in a couple of other standrd reference works.