Roll or Taper Crimp?

[BrotherInArms]

I plan to reload for my 45 Colt Flattop. Actually have everything I need, except the reloading bench isn't set up yet. (Even the brass. Bought a bag of 100 Starline on a whim when I was buying primers at Cabela's the other day.)

Doing my research and have run into a confusing point, re: When to use a roll crimp vs. when to use a taper crimp.

I've read that if the bullet has a cannelure (jacketed) or crimp groove (lead): Use a roll crimp, otherwise a taper crimp. I've also read that if the round indexes on the case mouth (e.g.: Semi-autos): Use a taper crimp. For rimmed (i.e.: Revolver) cartridges: A roll crimp.

Since semi-auto bullets usually don't have a cannelure or grove and most revolver bullets do: These mean the same thing.

Except there are bullets like the Berry's 250 gr. .45LC flat-nose plated bullets I bought:

No cannelure (or groove), despite being a "revolver bullet."

So I believe I want to taper crimp these?

 

[Big Old Boy]

Roll crimp but not to tight I load the same type in 357 they work fine.

 

[contender]

Actually, PLATED bullets (Berry's) should be mostly taper crimped. A heavy roll crimp can cut the plating & cause accuracy issues. A SLIGHT roll crimp combined with a taper crimp for the plated bullets would be the best,, in general to assist in holding the bullet in place and not cutting the plating. It takes a bit of finesse in setting up a crimp die to do this. When in doubt, taper crimp plated bullets.
But, heavy loads, using a jacketed bullet, with a cannelure will require a roll crimp.

 

[Cholo]

I've always felt that Berry's bullets were meant for semi autos with a taper crimp. Making them for revolver cartridges stinks of making more $ whether it's best or not.

You've got them so use them. I'd recommend a firm taper crimp--and proper lead bullets in the future. They're cheaper, too.

 

[jsh]

A taper crimp can and will size down projectiles, so use caution some what there.

As mentioned above some prefer one way others prefer, other.

Berrys bullets. I have quite a bunch of them. Bought them cheap, realllll cheap before I started casting. I am on the fence so to speak.
So with that said, they either work or they don't.
I won't press any bullet into service just because I have them. All that does is cause issues that should never have been.

I have shot some of their .355's in a 38/357 rig with so so results.
Any coating or plating will not make up for the wrong size.

But, and I do me a BUT, they can be pressed into service up to a point in speed and pressure.

I shot the .355's under 38 speeds out to about 12 yards. They worked is all can say.

Jeff

 

[BrotherInArms]

I've always felt that Berry's bullets were meant for semi autos with a taper crimp. Making them for revolver cartridges stinks of making more $ whether it's best or not.

Plating is just a less expensive way to keep the lead contained.

IYou've got them so use them. I'd recommend a firm taper crimp--and proper lead bullets in the future. They're cheaper, too.

Don't like shooting lead.

A taper crimp can and will size down projectiles, so use caution some what there.

Whereas a roll crimp can go through the plating. But caution noted.

I won't press any bullet into service just because I have them.

Well, I have them because I bought them. I bought them because I wanted to use them

Did some more research. Found a thread on another forum where somebody from Berry's (the owner?) talked about these issues. He mentioned Dillon's Accu-Crimp. Apparently it starts with a mild taper crimp and begins to transition to a roll crimp as more pressure is applied. He claimed that die worked well with plated bullets.

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

 

[contender]

Ok, so you dislike lead bullets. You wish for a cheaper bullet than jacketed w/o using lead,, so you got plated. Understood.
I assume you are not a bullet caster so I won't go into anything there.

But,, may I suggest a different type of bullet that can do what you desire, and allow a bit of easier loading? Powder coated bullets. They are a form of plating,, just not copper. And they do not cut & deform as bad as the copper plated ones.
I've loaded ten's of thousands of copper plated bullets for my semi-autos, and still do in a few calibers. I have Berry's, Xtreme's, & Raniers in 32, 38, 40, 44, & 45 calibers. I strictly use a taper crimp in my semi's. In my revolvers, I use as much taper crimp as I can with a SMALL amount of roll crimp.
But,, I've gone to powder coated bullets over my cast & lubed ones. And when I dispense myself of the revolver copper plated ones I have,,, I'll not get any more. Powder coated bullets have taken over a lot of my handgunning duties. I get the desired designs and performance of a good cast bullet,,, w/o the mess & smoke or leading of a normal cast & lubed bullet. Powder coated bullets have hit my "sweet spot" of reloading.

 

[BrotherInArms]

Thanks for the hint, contender. I'll look into powder-coated bullets. Do you have a favourite source/manufacturer? Do those have a ring or cannelure? Do you roll or taper crimp those?

 

[mikld]

I've only loaded about 1,000 plated bullets and for me, they are only so-so, no big deal. One of the major drawbacks of plated bullets is the lack of easily found information. This thread is much the same as seen on forums quite regularly, "How do I crimp my plated bullets?" and "What powder and how much do I use with my plated bullets?" are the most common.

Just some thoughts; first, what does the bullet manufacturer say? I believe most plated bullet manufacturers have a web site and possibly information and load data are there. You are correct about the "rue of thumb"; grooved or cannalure get roll and no groove or cannalure get taper crimped, but there are exceptions. Then just taper crimp the bullets; no cannalure and keep the loads light. And finally, put the bullets on a shelf and get some plain old jacketed bullets and after some experience is gained, branch out to plated.

I usually tell new reloaders to find a load i their loading manuals first, then buy components. Many fewer headaches and delays that way...

 

[mikld]

Thanks for the hint, contender. I'll look into powder-coated bullets. Do you have a favourite source/manufacturer? Do those have a ring or cannelure? Do you roll or taper crimp those?

I normally tell new reloaders to start with tried and true components at least until they get some experience reloading. Adding another "newer", less common item raises more questions (how to crimp, and what data?). For a 45 Colt, try a 250 gr. JHP over some Unique. Easy-peasy... :mrgreen:

 

[contender]

Actually, I cast & powder coat my own bullets. But I do understand that there are several commercial casters doing it now with very positive results. I THINK Missouri bullets is doing quite a few. I'll see what I can find out.
I treat my powder coated bullets like a hard cast bullet. If they have a crimp groove,,, I roll crimp into it. Most of my bullet molds have a crimp groove.

Now,,, recently,,, the Dillon reloading catalog had an excellent article on reloading plated bullets. I think it was the June or July issue. I also think Front Sight magazine had a good article as well. Let me do some digging.

 

[woodperson]

Bayou Bullets

 

[BrotherInArms]

I normally tell new reloaders to start with tried and true components at least until they get some experience reloading. Adding another "newer", less common item raises more questions (how to crimp, and what data?). For a 45 Colt, try a 250 gr. JHP over some Unique. Easy-peasy... :mrgreen:

Very well. Though I don't know about the Unique. Apparently it can be hard to obtain. But I've other powders for which there's lots of load data.

Cabela's seems to have a good selection of reloading supplies at reasonable prices, and there's one not too far from me. Perhaps they carry some jacketed 45 Colt bullets in smaller quantities?

I treat my powder coated bullets like a hard cast bullet. If they have a crimp groove,,, I roll crimp into it. Most of my bullet molds have a crimp groove.

Very well. I'll look into power-coated bullets. Member woodperson's recommendation, Bayou Bullets, looks pretty positive. They certainly get very positive reviews of both their company and its products. (Thanks, woodperson!)

Now,,, recently,,, the Dillon reloading catalog had an excellent article on reloading plated bullets. I think it was the June or July issue.

June. Found it.

The author recommends using a case guage to set crimping force for plated bullets. Makes a lot of sense. But, reading his article, plated bullets are more-and-more seeming like a PITA. I'd hate to think I wasted my money, but, if nothing else perhaps I should follow mikld's advice and start with something a bit less challenging.

I also think Front Sight magazine had a good article as well. Let me do some digging.

Thanks. The more info, the better.

 

[contender]

Ok, It was the June issue of the Blue Press that had a good article. I haven't found my Front sight issue that had info in it. I think it may be the March/April 2017 issue.

If you need a copy of the Dillon article,,, I can photocopy it & mail you one. OR,,, maybe a call to Dillon will get you the June issue.

And it was Missouri Bullets that is doing a lot of powder coated bullets that a lot of good shooters are using.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I shoot thousands of plated bullet and use a light to medium roll crimp made with mostly Lee factory crimp dies. Make sure the case mouth is champfered and deburred so it doesn't cut the plating.

 

[BrotherInArms]

Ok, It was the June issue of the Blue Press that had a good article. I haven't found my Front sight issue that had info in it. I think it may be the March/April 2017 issue.

If you need a copy of the Dillon article,,, I can photocopy it & mail you one. OR,,, maybe a call to Dillon will get you the June issue.

It's on-line. Plus I've been getting the Blue Press for... geez, years. I don't ever remember what I bought from Dillon!

It is a good article. Thanks for noting it.

And it was Missouri Bullets that is doing a lot of powder coated bullets that a lot of good shooters are using.

*nod* Found 'em last night. Thanks.

I shoot thousands of plated bullet and use a light to medium roll crimp made with mostly Lee factory crimp dies. Make sure the case mouth is champfered and deburred so it doesn't cut the plating.

*nod* The buddy of mine that turned me on to the deal on those Berry's bullets at Midway said "I've never had a problem with them. Just don't over-crimp." He uses a roll crimp.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I shoot thousands of plated bullet and use a light to medium roll crimp made with mostly Lee factory crimp dies. Make sure the case mouth is champfered and deburred so it doesn't cut the plating.

Hi,

Yup! And just for my own personal satisfaction, this is one place where having trimmed handgun brass is worth the time. With a wee bit of eyeballing, one can get the adjustment of the Lee FCD down to about 0.006" of an inch simply using the locknut as a gauge, so even the lightest of roll crimps is possible.

Rick C

 

[Mobuck]

I only use plated bullets in the 9mm for banging steel plates at close range. I use a solid taper crimp and don't worry about accuracy beyond 4-5" @ 50' so it works well. Squeezing the soft bullets doesn't seem to be a problem and apparently, they bump up to groove diameter adequately.