Reloading the .223

[gramps]

I bought the Lee 3 die kit. Set up the deprimer as instructed, but am unable to get it to deprime. I am afraid of breaking off the table I am putting so much pressure on the arm. Yes I did lubricate all the cases, I have adjusted the die, and readjusted. I have tried several casings with the exact same response-none. The case stops 1/2 inch from the bottom of the die. These were shot in an H&R Handi rifle. Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
gramps

 

[mattsbox99]

Take the case out and raise the ram then screw the die all the way in until it touches the shellholder. Make sure your decapping stem is only about 3/16" below the bottom of the die.

 

[gramps]

Take the case out and raise the ram then screw the die all the way in until it touches the shellholder. Make sure your decapping stem is only about 3/16" below the bottom of the die.

Yes I have done that twice per the instructions that came with it. It says once it touchs to advance it 1/4-1/3 turn more no dice. I did that plus enough to put me at 1/2-1 whole turn with exactly the same results. I am frustrated.
gramps

 

[gramps]

Ok I started over from scratch with the adjustments, and same results. I have never done rifle cartridges before, and never had this problem with .357 or .44. Everything deprimed easily. I am using once fired PMC brass if that makes a difference?
gramps

 

[edfardos]

look down inside the brass.. How many flash holes do you see? Where'd you get the brass?

 

[ra]

To see if depriming is your problem, remove the stem and see if you can size a case. If you can't then something is wrong with your die. I wonder if maybe a 222 die was mislabeled as a 223.

Roger

 

[gramps]

I just took out the deprimer and the case will not enter the die any farther than before. The deprimer will enter the case completely. The Die itself is marked LEE- 223-01. Oh well. I guess It'll be next week before I can do any handloading. I'll take it back to the LGS(50 miles away) and see if I can exchange it.
gramps

 

[gramps]

edfardos, I bought the PMC ammo from the store when I bought the gun. I shot the ammo. No problems with extraction. Looking inside the case I only see one hole at the bottom.
gramps

 

[mattsbox99]

PMC is good brass and boxer primed, I've loaded thousands of them.

I guess you can measure in the die with a caliper from the base to the neck and see how long it is. That will answer whether its milled wrong from the factory real fast.

 

[gramps]

I am mechanically challenged, and the few tools I had went
away with my divorce last Nov. The case will not go all the
way into the die. It leaves approx. an half inch out.
gramps

 

[mattsbox99]

Well you're gonna need a caliper to measure the loaded cartridge for overall length anyway. You don't need to spend a lot on one but I do recommend a digital one. Midway has a plenty good 'nuff one for around $20.

 

[gramps]

Well you're gonna need a caliper to measure the loaded cartridge for overall length anyway. You don't need to spend a lot on one but I do recommend a digital one. Midway has a plenty good 'nuff one for around $20.

I haven't used one yet. I use a commercial load as a dummy
bullet to adjust length. I keep reading that calipers aren't
accurate enough so I haven't bought. It would make life
easier. I'll look into those.
gramps

 

[mattsbox99]

I'd love to read that... I'd be completely lost without mine. I use them all the time.

 

[joker12]

As far as calipers go, yes they are accurate. I'm a retired tool and die maker and have depended on them for years. Buy good ones, starrett or mitutoyo, and for what it's worth I prefer dial calipers over digital. If you're going to reload rifle ammo you'll use them all the time.

 

[gramps]

Today I took the Lee die set back to the store. Mine didn't work nor any of theirs. We got to looking at the casing and low and behold the primers were crimped, and my table is too flimsy to drive out the primer. On the other hand so was the LGS's. I will have to manually drive out the primers and then chamfer the pocket a little to get another primer in. I guess if I am going to do rifle bullets I need to find a sturdier table. Anyone know of an inexpensive sturdy small table that will suffice to load rifle bullets on?
gramps

 

[mattsbox99]

Crimped primer pockets do take a little more effort, you'll need to swage or ream the pockets for new primers to go in.

 

[Tellico]

Get a Lee Universal decapper--then you will only be doing one step at a time --cuts the effort needed. deprime then clean case then resize. use good case lube. If using a bolt gun just neck size just enough to touch the shoulder. If auto full length resize. You will need to remove that crimp to prime the case too.

 

[gramps]

At this point all my pet projects have come to a screechiing halt. My CPA informs me that I owe $18,000.00 in taxes above and beyond what I have already paid!!!! Thanks ya'll for your help.
gramps

 

[gerryb158]

That is bad news. Hope things work out for you. Even "crimped" primers should pop out without that much struggle but it seems you're on the right track. On your table. Consider getting a sheet of 3/4" cabinet grade plywood and cutting it (or getting it cut) to the size of your table. Then glue and clamp it over the old table top, a little polyurathane, and you should be good to go. Best wishes. Gerry

 

[gramps]

Gerry, Thanks for the tip. I should be able to scare up enough scratch to do that. I think I'll forego the Poly. Ha ha.
gramps

 

[gramps]

So I bought 3/4 inch plywood for a ramp to get the big dog (13 y.o. and 110 lbs) into the truck easier. Had the store cut a piece of it for my table. Well I used it with absolutly no different results. I need a better table. I quit my job, and am looking for another, and saving shekels. Sooo what is a decent work table that doesn't require a lot of tools to put together or sawing. In other words does Black and Decker et al make one that will work? Trying to locate something so when I get another job I can then move ahead.
gramps

 

[gramps]

So How much pressure does it take to remove a crimped primer? OTH the (PMC) case stops with about 1/2 inch left to go and no amount of weight (180lbs) can persuade it to to go fully into the die so maybe the punch isn't even contacting the primer. I have two cartridges that were deprimed at the LGS and even they won't go all the way into the die. I took the dies to the LGS and they deprimed those two with difficulty, but got er done, but I can't. Yes I have lubed the cases. FRUSTRATED!
Ok so I have taken a hammer(15 0z) to the deprimer(outside of the die) with the case held by the case holder on a block of wood. It takes 10 hard whacks to deprime it. Almost not worth the effort! Then put them in the die to full length resize ( all I see is the neck being made smaller otherwise the bullet drops all the way into the case). Now I need to redo the primer pocket to take out the crimp. Is there any .223 ammo that doesn't have the crimp? Are all rifle cartridges this difficult?
gramps

 

[gramps]

I had a total of 5 cases deprimed (2 from LGS, and 3 I just did with great effort). The two from the LGS I can barely start a bullet, so I did the full length sizing on one of the 3 to get the neck to reflect the first two, on my second I applied the pressure and telescoped the case. Now I only have 3 ready to prime and I am worried about doing the 4 th. If all Rifle cartridges are this difficult I am going to sell them all! Never had anywhere this kind of grief from the pistol/shotgun cartridges I've loaded in the past 30 years.
gramps

 

[Rick Courtright]

I will have to manually drive out the primers and then chamfer the pocket a little to get another primer in. I guess if I am going to do rifle bullets I need to find a sturdier table. Anyone know of an inexpensive sturdy small table that will suffice to load rifle bullets on?
gramps

Hi,

Dunno if this might make your job easier, Gramps, but Lee makes a "universal" decapper (as do some other mfrs.) It's essentially an "open" die w/ the decapping pin, so you decap w/o adding the "load" of sizing. Some folks like 'em for prepping brass to tumble before sizing, some like 'em for getting those crimped primers out.

Lee also has the "beat on it w/ a hammer" tool (essentially the old decapper from the original "Lee Loader" kit) that can be used to get the crimped primers out. Seems like a little extra work, but you only have to use it once per case, as you'll be chamfering the primer pocket for future use...

As for "heavier" tables, my presses are mounted on a metal workbench from Sears. It's moderately heavy, but not rock solid, from the factory. I C-clamped two sheets of 3/4" material on top to add quite a bit of weight. You could use plywood but I'm a cheapskate and used some pressboard kinda stuff. It's still possible to "pick up" the bench a little if I try, but for practical use, it's good.

Also, are you using enough lube on the cases before trying to resize them? I use the Lee lube, Imperial Sizing Wax is often recommended, and every mfr has some of their own. Most are good. Be sure to keep lube off the shoulder or you can dent or crumple the case. You want some lube on the outside of the case body, outside of the neck, and inside the neck (a Q-tip helps.)

I hear stories all the time about how much pressure it takes to resize rifle cases, but, properly lubed, w/ a firm but steady pressure on the press handle, I've never found them to be that tough. More work than pistol cases, true, but not to the point of being problematic.

Rick C

 

[mattsbox99]

Too much lube will make them difficult also.

I recently processed a bunch of .223 brass and with the decapper the crimped primers were only slightly harder to push out than non crimped primers which required almost no effort.

I highly recommend Imperial (Redding) die wax for lube, one little tin will last you at least a decade.

 

[gramps]

Too much lube will make them difficult also.

I recently processed a bunch of .223 brass and with the decapper the crimped primers were only slightly harder to push out than non crimped primers which required almost no effort.

I highly recommend Imperial (Redding) die wax for lube, one little tin will last you at least a decade.

"Required almost no effort", Nope that doesn't describe in any way how hard it is to get the primers out of this PMC brass. Thanks for the suggestion Rick I'll check Sears for a table, and now two of the forum members have suggested getting an Lee Universal Decapper so I'll get one of those also. With the decapper in place all I do is push it up, so I have to take it all apart to reset it. Spinning my wheels so to speak. I used Lee case lube, and yes inside with a q-tip I have put the .223 away for now til I get the suggested items. Thanks for listening.
gramps

 

[Rick Courtright]

I have put the .223 away for now til I get the suggested items. Thanks for listening.
gramps

Hi,

Ya know, Gramps, w/ your current "state of mind" it might be that a short break will let you approach this w/ a much lower level of aggravation! That news from your accountant's enough to unscrew most anyone's head! I speak from experience when saying frustration has stopped a project or two, but a short breather allowed me to come back and tackle it w/o the previous problems!

Now, just a "let's see if we can set a baseline" idea: can you scrounge some other .223 brass somewhere that doesn't have the crimped primers? It wouldn't take too many pieces to run thru and see how much effort is "normal" for your setup. BTW, what press are you using? If it's one of the "biguns" like an RCBS Rock Chucker, Redding Boss or Big Boss, Lyman Crusher, Lee Classic Cast, or similar, you should be able to pretty well crush a case w/o TOO much effort.

And, just for giggles, here's a REALLY off the wall situation I'd have never thought of until my brother in law started having trouble and gave me a call one time. He'd just started loading .357s and was concerned they took WAY more effort than the .38s he'd loaded before did. Does the press move smoothly and evenly thru its entire range as it should? What happened to him was he'd left his press (RCBS Reloader Special, recent version) in the travel trailer that acted as his "loading room" at the time. The roof developed a leak, and it got pretty damp inside. The press developed some rusty/gooey spots that wouldn't allow it to travel thru the normal range w/o tremendous effort.

It took some oil and cleaning to get things "slicked up" again. When we got thru, he said his '06s were easier to load than .38s had been before we got to playing around. I know, it was a one in a million problem, but who knows?

Hang in there! It'll get better...

Rick C

 

[gramps]

Thanks Rick. Every one of my .223 seems to be crimped. I have tried
PMC and Renington. I've been reloading .44 maggies with
No problems this afternoon.
gramps

 

[Twoboxer]

Sierra's manual notes the following:

"If (.223) military cases are used, the primer pocket will need to be swaged or reamed to remove the crimp and allow seating of a new primer."

 

[gramps]

Sierra's manual notes the following:

"If (.223) military cases are used, the primer pocket will need to be swaged or reamed to remove the crimp and allow seating of a new primer."

Yeah I will if I can get them deprimed.
gramps