Reloading for the .44 spcl

[gramps]

Last night I was loading up some .44 spcl with 240 gr lswc over 15 grs 2400, and 300 cci primers. After loading, I was looking in the Lyman reloading manual 49th edition. The MAX listed for 2400, was 13.2! Of course I looked elsewhere too, and they mirrored the Lyman Manual. Except for an article on Elmer Keith where he used 17 grs of 2400 under 240 gr lswc. Gunloads had a recipe listed at 15.5 grs of 2400 under 240 gr lswc for use in a Ruger. Why is there so much variation. I shoot my load in a Charter Arms Bulldog that is rated for plus P loads without problems.
gramps

 

[loaded round]

From what I've read, the formulation of 2400 powder has changed over the years since Elmer Keith started using that powder. Stick with what is shown in the loading manuals and stay safe. Also remember that Mr. Keith started pushing the 44 Spl to much higher velocities and pressures when he was attempting to develop the 44 Mag. Be safe my friend.

 

[Jim Puke]

gramps, I load for the Bulldog, also and I load mine a little lighter than that. Biggest reason for me is to make it a little easier on the gun, with those heavy bullets. Based on that gun's light weight and conventional materials, it is really better suited for 200gr bullets at +P pressures.

 

[gramps]

My gun shoots best with the 240 gr and most accurate with the 15 grs. It isn't that much of a load to shoot. I have tried some 200 gr bullets in the Bulldog, but was totally unimpressed. That was with 4227. May need to try 296 or 2400.
gramps

 

[Jim Puke]

My gun shoots best with the 240 gr and most accurate with the 15 grs. It isn't that much of a load to shoot. I have tried some 200 gr bullets in the Bulldog, but was totally unimpressed. That was with 4227. May need to try 296 or 2400.
gramps

Yeah, I was speaking of 200gr HP's at +P...the Speer Gold Dot is considered to be the top dog in the 44 special. I agree about the 240gr bullets...they don't shoot low, like the 200grs do. Matter of fact, I don't shoot 200gr bullets in any of my 44 specials( except defensive loads for the Bulldog)...I only shoot one bullet/load in the Ruger's...429421/7.5grs Unique.

 

[Rclark]

I only shoot 6.0g of Unique under 240g SWC in my Bulldog (CC load). Anything more and I feel it beats up the gun to much. Those 'walls' are thin! My Rugers though get 7.5g Unique under 240g SWC as the goto load. I've also loaded 17g of 2400 under 240g SWC for my Specials, but would not put that in a Bulldog. Nope notta. What's a 200g bullet? Never used 'em. Never will.

 

[dougader]

Those "Keith loads" are meant for Ruger revolvers. Keith originally used 18 grains of Hercules 2400. Brian Pearce, of Handloader magazine, and others have advised to drop that MAX load to 17 grains of Alliant 2400. I've heard from a few guys I respect that 15 grains is a great load and very accurate in their new Ruger flat tops.

I, too, would take it easy on a Charter Arms Bulldog, staying within published data from Hornady, Sierra, Lyman, and the later Speer 14 manual(s).

 

[5of7]

I have a Smith 696 L frame gun....not a brute for strength, and I have data saved where I loaded 15 grs, of 2400 behind a 240 gr. lead SWC. In the 3" bbl. I got 928 fps out of it.

I wouldn't go any farther than that in the 696, but mostly because I would hate to abuse it. If I were you, I would back off a little in the Bulldog. 8)

 

[gramps]

I probably get less than 928 GPS from the Bulldog with its 2.5 inch barrel. A lot of the Lyman data was giving 500 to 700 fps out of a 6 inch barrel! Sorry, I won't do that in my Bulldog. It would probably be 400-500 Fps.
gramps

 

[DGW1949]

Last night I was loading up some .44 spcl with 240 gr lswc over 15 grs 2400, and 300 cci primers. After loading, I was looking in the Lyman reloading manual 49th edition. The MAX listed for 2400, was 13.2! Of course I looked elsewhere too, and they mirrored the Lyman Manual. Except for an article on Elmer Keith where he used 17 grs of 2400 under 240 gr lswc. Gunloads had a recipe listed at 15.5 grs of 2400 under 240 gr lswc for use in a Ruger. Why is there so much variation. I shoot my load in a Charter Arms Bulldog that is rated for plus P loads without problems.
gramps

Uh...Gramps...no offense intended, but them Max loads which you are finding in those manuals are there for a reason, and the reason is to keep them within SAAMI-specs so you don't wreck your gun, or yourself.

As for the other things you mentioned:

I wouldn't go so far as to call Saint Kieth an idiot, but I will say that he wasn't shy about cooking-up his own high pressure loads, and sometimes didn't stop until he'd damaged a gun or blew something up. A sort of "tighten it up until it breaks and then back off a turn" kind of guy, if ya get my drift.....probably not the kind of guy that I'd be getting my loading info from....just sayin'.

What may be safe in one Ruger may not be safe in the next. Either way though, you can bet your last dollar that a "Ruger Only" load means just what it says.

Your Charter Arms Bulldog is not "rated for plus P loads". Beings how there is no such thing as a .44Spl +P load, how could it be.

Stay safe.

DGW

 

[stevemb]

Two things have changed since Mr Keith made his load famous. Case designs were changed which lowered volume. Then it seems that 2400 got a bit faster.

 

[sixshot]

You need to remember that NASA blew up a few rockets before the "idiots' got it right, not sure what reloading manual they went by.
Also, when Elmer first starting working with the 44 special 2400 hadn't been made yet, I think he was using #80. Reloading data, pressure equipment & reloading components back in the 20's & 30's were pretty much unheard of except for pure lead & black powder, yet much of what he learned is still being used today. Anyone breaking new ground is bound to make mistakes, that keeps the rest of us from making them........

Dick

 

[Rclark]

2400 was introduced in 1932. .44 Special Cartridge was introduced in 1907. Just an FYI.

 

[mikld]

Last night I was loading up some .44 spcl with 240 gr lswc over 15 grs 2400, and 300 cci primers. After loading, I was looking in the Lyman reloading manual 49th edition. The MAX listed for 2400, was 13.2! Of course I looked elsewhere too, and they mirrored the Lyman Manual. Except for an article on Elmer Keith where he used 17 grs of 2400 under 240 gr lswc. Gunloads had a recipe listed at 15.5 grs of 2400 under 240 gr lswc for use in a Ruger. Why is there so much variation. I shoot my load in a Charter Arms Bulldog that is rated for plus P loads without problems.
gramps

OOPS! I don't ty to remember any load data and usualy update my manuals. I'm not smart enough to figger out loads not in my manuals...

 

[308 Scout]

The .44 Special can be thought of in the same vein as the 45-70 Gov't; it's loaded depending upon the firearm in which it's fired.

From Handloader #236 and an article by Brian Pearce:

The second category (22,000 psi) includes the Colt Single Action Army, New Frontier SAA, Charter Arms Bull Dog and United States Fire-Arms SAA-pattern revolvers that are U.S. manufactured.

The load you're using is probably in the 18-20K psi range and therefore, according to Mr. Pearce, safe in the Bulldog.

This particular article and data can be found here: http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/Brian Pearce on the 44 Special.pdf

A subscription to www.loaddata.com will provide a dizzying amount of data for the .44 Special as well as any other caliber known to man and costs less than the price of a couple of printed manuals.

 

[Rclark]

This is one time I would have to disagree with Brian.... I just don't see the Bulldog staying together with 22K loads. To me it belongs in the SAAMI only category. But that's my opinion. For what the Bulldog market is pointed at, SAAMI loads gives you plenty of punch whether you use 200g or 240g bullets.

 

[gramps]

The .44 Special can be thought of in the same vein as the 45-70 Gov't; it's loaded depending upon the firearm in which it's fired.

From Handloader #236 and an article by Brian Pearce:

The second category (22,000 psi) includes the Colt Single Action Army, New Frontier SAA, Charter Arms Bull Dog and United States Fire-Arms SAA-pattern revolvers that are U.S. manufactured.

The load you're using is probably in the 18-20K psi range and therefore, according to Mr. Pearce, safe in the Bulldog.

This particular article and data can be found here: http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/Brian Pearce on the 44 Special.pdf

A subscription to http://www.loaddata.com will provide a dizzying amount of data for the .44 Special as well as any other caliber known to man and costs less than the price of a couple of printed manuals.

Thanks for the info. I had loaded the originals sometime ago after doing the research. This time I merely loaded what was on the label. I estimate I am getting 850 fps from that load. Mr Pearce was getting 1100 fps from a 7.5 inch barrel. From data elsewhere you lose approx 50 fps for each inch of barrel lost. I am not trying to make a magnum of the Bulldog, but a viable defensive woods gun in the lower 48 :lol: 8)
gramps

 

[Rclark]

am not trying to make a magnum of the Bulldog, but a viable defensive woods gun in the lower 48

That's why I carry by Bulldog in 'town' (and house gun) for the two legged variety of animal, and a heavier loaded BH (since open carry is fine) for the 'woods' for the four legged critters.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Has anyone noticed over the years that those who recommend "over (SAAMI) pressure" loads in particular guns are NOT the people who MAKE those same guns, who have proprietary knowledge of how they're built and of what? Or that none of the proponents of "fill it up until it spills over the edge" type loads are gonna be anywhere around to buy you a new gun when one of their "recommendations" produces ragged scrap metal in your hand, maybe in more ways than one?

Rick C

 

[Rclark]

...loads in particular guns are NOT the people who MAKE those same guns

Of course not Rick. If I was manufacturer and manufactured a revolver that had an inch thick chamber walls that was chambered for .44 Special ... I'd still say 'good for SAAMI .44 Special power levels only' as that is the 'only' standard to go by for that cartridge. All about protecting your behind and standing behind your product. As for the reloader, you can do some calculations and say 'hmmmm' 'obviously' this revolver will withstand way more than SAAMI power levels.... If I blow my finger off or head off, it isn't the manufacturers fault ... as it should be. Nor should someone dictate what should or shouldn't be loaded in a gun. It is 'your' own responsibility to use your own judgement and deal with the consequences (at least is should be!). One person is ultra conservative, while another is ultra radical, while most of us are in-between somewhere. Just roll with it. All good . When it comes to the Bulldog for example, I am conservative... SAAMI only. With the Ruger flattop, that is a different animal and will stoke it a bit warmer and not feel I am endangering myself.

 

[snakeeyes4445]

Six grains of Unique and fifteen of 2400 in the .44 spl are both very accurate loads. They are what I use, but always trying others to see if they are better. Their use in your two guns should be ideal for their intended purposes.
I would not want to shoot the heavy load in the Bulldog though, for recoil and safety reasons.

I find the concept of mid-range loads to be curious unless you are committed to just one bullet and load. For my part, I am either plinking or hunting and load accordingly. With just two good loads such as these, you will have shot them enough to know the points of impact by repeated use. JMHO