Reloading data...

[Jim Puke]

First let me apologize for the picture...cannot figure out why either my phone or photobucket is turning pics like this and will not allow me rotate them...IDK what the problem is.

Anyway, check this Unique data for the Lyman 429421 bullet...this max load appears to be off the charts as compared to other manuals. Starting load is 9.8grs and Max load is a whopping 13.0grs.

This data came from the Lyman 3rd Edition Pistol and Revolver Handbook copyright 2004.

 

[Chief 101]

I have that mold and over the years I have used a 12gr. loading as a mid range Badger hunting load...13gr. is not out of the question...not a lot of my books have hardcast bullet data included, but, and old Speer book has a similar loading of Unique for a jacketed bullet...it seems like a perfectly normal max loading of Unique to me...

 

[Jim Puke]

I have that mold and over the years I have used a 12gr. loading as a mid range Badger hunting load...13gr. is not out of the question...not a lot of my books have hardcast bullet data included, but, and old Speer book has a similar loading of Unique for a jacketed bullet...it seems like a perfectly normal max loading of Unique to me...

I have cast and loaded thousands of the 429421...it is the only 44 bullet that I cast. This Lyman manual load is at least 1gr over the max load in any other manual that I have...old or new. I have loaded up to 12grs...but that is my limit...I will leave the 13grs to others.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

If you are going for max pressure and velocity I would not be using Unique.

 

[Jim Puke]

If you are going for max pressure and velocity I would not be using Unique.

I am not...what would make you think that?

I was just looking at this load in the book because I shoot Unique from 10-12grs for the mag.

If I want horsepower, H110, 296, 2400 or 4227 is the place to find that.

 

[Mtneer]

I have that mold and over the years I have used a 12gr. loading as a mid range Badger hunting load...13gr. is not out of the question...not a lot of my books have hardcast bullet data included, but, and old Speer book has a similar loading of Unique for a jacketed bullet...it seems like a perfectly normal max loading of Unique to me...

I have cast and loaded thousands of the 429421...it is the only 44 bullet that I cast. This Lyman manual load is at least 1gr over the max load in any other manual that I have...old or new. I have loaded up to 12grs...but that is my limit...I will leave the 13grs to others.

Yeah, 13grs of Unique behind a 429421 sounds kind of weird to me too seeing as how I've read about a hundred times on these internet forums that loading manuals are becoming more and more "lawyer proof." Yet I have the exact same "Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook," copywrite 2004 that lists, just as Jim Luke says, a maximum load of 13grs of Unique behind a Lyman 429421, but I also have a "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook" copywrite 1973 sitting in front of me that lists a maximum load of only 12grs of Unique behind a Lyman 429421.
I personally like 10grs of Unique behind a Lyman 429421 in my .44 Magnums. It's a real good, light to medium load that has snipped the head off many a Blue Grouse and punched holes in many a tin can. Besides, the Lyman 429421 and the Lyman 358429 are my two favorite bullets to cast.

 

[Rook]

Here it is right side up.

 

[pruger45]

I use 10 grs. with Elmer's bullet for my mid-range 44 mag. loads. The latest Lyman Cast bullet handbook lists the same 13 grs. of Unique as max also.

 

[WIL TERRY]

ARE WE TO ASSUME the cartridge involved is the 44MAGNUM? IF SO, that data is not out of line and we ran it on a pressure gun any years ago. HERCO worked up there mighty fine too.
And so it goes..

 

[Chief 101]

you did notice that they recommended 2400 powder for the best choice here...besides Unique, they showed that you could use a few other powders that are also not the best choices...I just don't see a problem here, all this data is information

 

[Jim Puke]

you did notice that they recommended 2400 powder for the best choice here...besides Unique, they showed that you could use a few other powders that are also not the best choices...I just don't see a problem here, all this data is information

Do you notice that I was just pointing out the difference in the data...I made no mention of planning to use 13grs of Unique. Unique is NOT my choice for seeking maximum performance from 44 magnum rounds. I am not a newbie to reloading...and I understand that a loading manual is for information. BUT, I just happened to notice that this information is out of the ordinary.

 

[gster]

This pic. is from my Lymans 4th. copyrighted 2010. Yes, it is for .44 mag.

 

[NikA]

Didn't Unique get reformulated in the past 10 or so years to be "cleaner"? If so, could the differences in the loading manuals be due to the reformulation? The other alternative is a change in the test method that revealed lower than previously estimated pressures for a more powerful load (i.e., change from CUP to direct PSI measurement)

 

[mikld]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The OP made an observation the 13.0 seemed pretty hot to him. Personally, if I ever wanted to drive my 429421s up to max. I would trust my manual before I would forum members (no offence fellers!)...

 

[Mtneer]

you did notice that they recommended 2400 powder for the best choice here...besides Unique, they showed that you could use a few other powders that are also not the best choices...I just don't see a problem here, all this data is information

Do you notice that I was just pointing out the difference in the data...I made no mention of planning to use 13grs of Unique. Unique is NOT my choice for seeking maximum performance from 44 magnum rounds. I am not a newbie to reloading...and I understand that a loading manual is for information. BUT, I just happened to notice that this information is out of the ordinary.

I get it Jim. The information in the Lyman Third Edition Pistol & Revolver Handbook is just "out of the ordinary" - not necessarily wrong.
I'm not a newbie to reloading either. And Unique certainly wouldn't be my choice for maximum performance 44 magnum rounds either. As a matter of fact, I've loaded tens of thousands (literally) of "maximum performance" metallic silhouette 44 magnum rounds using 2400.
But back to the subject of the information in the newer Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook being "out of the ordinary," NikA, in a later post in this thread, might just have the answer - I too have read Unique has been reformulated in the last 10 years or so to make it cleaner burning. I have no reason, nor do I have any desire to try it, but it's plausible that when using the "new" Unique, 13grs behind the great Lyman 429421 bullet in a 44 magnum is just fine.

 

[NikA]

Isn't the SAAMI limit for .44M 40k CUP? The loads listed are hot, but not that hot, which suggests to me that maybe the difference is a bullet performance consideration? Do the other manuals spec the lead composition/hardness like Lyman does?
Alliant's own data for the 250gr Keith bullet shows 11gr giving better than 1200fps, same OAL, 7.5" test bbl. Lyman's ~1150fps at 13gr seems inconsistent by that measure.

 

[mikld]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The OP mad an observation the 13.0 seemed pretty hot to him. Personally, if I ever wanted to drive my 429421s up to max. I would trust my manual before I would forum members (no offence fellers!)...

I'm surprised (as a newbie) to hear some saying this is just information.

I thought due to pressure dangers etc. this stuff is 'the law' and is not to be screwed with.

The "fuss" was about the reactions and recommendations for a simple post about how high the OP considered a specific load. Just his observation. Nowhere did he state he was loading with that data.

Reloading manual data is not hard and fast formula. Manuals merely report the results of what their lab technicians found using their specific lot of powder, in their particular cases, with their particular lot of primers, loaded with their particular lot of bullets (yes bullets can vary lot to lot), tested on their equipment on a specific day/time. It is just information.

Reloading safely take a bit of logic (brains) and common sense, and the ability to follow directions. If one chooses, haphazardly, to start reloading with maximum recommended loads, then he should expect hazardous conclusions. The manuals are "suggestions" using the data the lab personnel found.

But to expand on my statement; I pay very little (no) attention to any forum expert, pet loads web site, gun counter clerk, range rat or gun shop guru for any loading data (powder charges). I get 95% of my data from published manuals (and normally start loads for a new to me cartridge at "starting load" levels). I have obtained data from powder manufacturer's web sites and only one cartridge data from an on line source (Garand load data). Works for me for mebbe 30 years.

G slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Reloading manual data is not hard and fast formula. Manuals merely report the results of what their lab technicians found using their specific lot of powder, in their particular cases, with their particular lot of primers, loaded with their particular lot of bullets (yes bullets can vary lot to lot), tested on their equipment on a specific day/time. It is just information.

Yep, exactly. Lyman is a reloading equipment company. That is why we compare data from various sources. I like to use the powder manufacture's latest online data with a known bullet. Cast bullets can vary a lot. Linotype bullets are very hard. If you notice on the Alliant website it recommends 11.0 grains of Unique with a 250gr (Keith type) bullet at 1211 fps. They don't give min and max numbers or pressures.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=250&shellid=33&bulletid=47

 

[Rclark]

Seems high to me ... but that is because, I was getting stuck cases as 12.0g under a 240g bullet back when. Now when using Unique 10.0g is what I use, and go to 2400 for anything warmer.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Another observation about the bullet: what are YOUR 429421s weighing out at? That picture of Jim's book shows a 245 gr weight. I don't use that bullet, but a buddy says his 429421s come in about 10+ grains over that figure, using straight wheelweights IIRC. That could make a difference in the powder charge quite understandable...

Rick C