Quick loads data questions

[contender]

One of our lurkers here has been asking me questions about a specific type of reloading. He has many manuals, has a fair experience in reloading,, but is seeking very specific data.
I have never used an online service like Quick Loads. I suggested it to him as a POSSIBLE source of what he seeks.

Basically, he's seeking data for 5.56 military brass,, to be used in a Rem 700 .223 rifle. He has been trying a few loads,, and is seeing the cases fill up before getting close to the "max charge" allowed. He's using BL-C2 powder,, and is working on his brass to see what it can do. His concerns are pressure safety,, as well as any PRINTED data gained by a reliable source where military brass was used instead of commercial brass.

Will Quick Loads offer such data?

 

[krw]

I'd be careful with BL-C2 on max loads. It IS a very sensative temperature powder

 

[contender]

He's nowhere near max loads,, and the case is already filled to the upper shoulder area. He's more inclined to trying to understand the differences in the brass than even attempting max loads.

 

[krw]

If He has the case filled to ipper shoulder, He is at maximum load UNLESS He uses a drop tube, then He can put a little more. To tell the difference in different brand brass volumn, just fill the different avail brass with water. Empty wt vs filled wt will tell Him what He wants to know.
Proceed with minor caution. If you run out of room and don't hav excessive pressure signs, look on burn rate chart and go to slightly faster burning powder. Drop your charge weight and work the load up 0.2gr at a time till you start showing pressure signs. A chronograph is a great tool developing loads

 

[s4s4u]

Not all "military" brass is created equal. I load it all the time, but I cull out the heavy cases that have thicker case walls. Anything over 97 grains, with primer, is removed from the group. Some cases weigh as much as 110 grains or more. Loads that fill a proper case to the bottom of the neck will overflow heavier cases. If your friend does similar I suspect his problem will go away.

 

[krw]

I hav prepped thousand's of military 5.56 and 7.62 brass. As I have got older my time is too valuable for that anymore. If I am really planning on making a rifle really shoot, I'm gonna use Lapua brass. I really like Winchester brass also. And oddly enough, lots of people dislike Federal brass but I have good luck with it too

 

[contender]

We have discussed drop tubes. He was unaware of their use.

And we have also discussed the water weight/volume method to determine the internal volume.

Chronographs,, another lengthy discussion. He has one,, but hasn't ever even set it up. I told him to do that. And I also offered to set up one of mine & let him try it.

His biggest concern was safety,, and he worries that the smaller volume case capacity,, even with loads well below the max,, might exceed the pressure rating. He's looking for info that isn't in normal manuals. And while he has a LOT of military brass,, he is also going to get some more commercial brass to try.

We've had several, long discussions about all this. Basically he's wanting a place that has already done pressure testing of stuff using ONLY military brass,, with various powders, bullets, and primers. This was why I wondered about Quick Loads data.

 

[gnappi]

I've never seen any commercial load book data specifically for Mil brass though I know lots of peeps used to use it. Nowadays commercial .223 brass is so plentiful it's likely there's not much interest in Mil stuff. Maybe he could try the water fill test to segregate and use the brass that holds the most amount of water?

Anyway, I'm in the same camp as KRW, though commercial mixed head stamp brass is fine with me. I've never used BLC2 but do use 2230 (A bit faster than BLC2) and with commercial brass never had cases too full or with pressure signs using published data.

I don't know what his situation is but I have buckets of once fired and range mixed head stamp .223 brass I'll send him a quantity to evaluate for feasibility of recycling the mil brass.

 

[contender]

gnappi, that would be very nice if you'd send him some brass.

He & I have discussed it a lot. And he's just looking for information as he tries HARD to be SAFE! And he has scrounged up a lot of military brass over the years because it was inexpensive. He just wants to use what he has, AND be knowledgeable in it's use for safety reasons. His fears are about the potential for higher pressures due to lower volume.

If you want to send him some brass,, it can come to me & I'll give it to Danny. He told me yesterday,, he wanted to find some commercial stuff, either new, or once fired to try, and preferred to use just one brand to get as uniform as possible.

 

[Johnnu2]

Just an FYI... I just received the JULY 2024 issue (yes July) of Shooting Times. Lane Pearce has a article in it that addresses .223 Rem. vs. 5.56 NATO interchangeability (of AMMO not reloading). While it doesn't answer the op's question, it's worth reading in my opinion. It may be old news to some, but not to me.

J.

 

[contender]

Thanks. I'll tell Danny.

 

[Mobuck]

My suggestion is simply change powder OR brass. There are umpteen headstamps of .223/5.56 brass described as 'mil-spec' and I'd bet there's a LOT of variation. Most of my .223 loading has been with powders that are in the 'medium (or faster)' burn rate range for the .223. Xterminator is a great powder for any/all .223 loads with 55-60 grain bullets(that's all I load) and I load to a specific velocity rather than reaching for a 'MAX LOAD' goal. If I remember correctly, I've loaded at least 40 pounds of WCC844 (H335-ish burn rate) back in the early 2000's. My experience indicates something like 1/2 grain less powder for similar velocity using military brass vs domestic commercial brass.
Added:
FWIW, I don't particularly 'like' compressed loads so I shy away from the slower or more 'bulky' powders. I can also understand the desire to utilize 'mil-spec' brass and I'm sure Contender has passed on far more information/knowledge than many of us can. There's just such variety of 'mil-specs' that a lot of sorting is required for consistent reloads. In those cases, I simply held back to a firm 5% off the top end load data to cover this variation. The difference won't be noticed under 200 yards under most circumstances. Again, my suggestion is use a faster powder and/or switch to spherical powder if he's been using stick powder.

 

[contender]

Well, here's an update.

Danny was just wanting to find any PRINTED data about the use of his large quantity of military 5.56 brass to be used in his Rem 700. And he also has a lot of BL-C2 powder & enjoys using it as well. His search was just for safety's sake,, as he saw where you could put about 3.0 grns of powder more than what he was able to get in a case w/o compressing the load. His concern was "safe pressures" and was worried the different internal volume might cause an increase in pressure.

We had a lot of long & serious discussions about loads, the hows & why's of various things.

Danny was being very meticulous in his case prep. Uniform lengths, uniformed primer pockets, etc. And he loaded up test loads in 3 beginning powder charges, all individually weighed. He stopped 3.0 grns below max due to volume. And he had 94) other loads,, using a different bullet, and such,, and again was well below max.

Well, yesterday,, we took his gun, his (never before used & new Caldwell) chronograph, AND my new Garmin chronograph to the range. We set it all up to see what velocities & all we would get. And while chronoing the ammo was the main purpose,, we also shot for accuracy. Now,, we only shot at 25 yds KNOWING that it would NOT be a true measure of accuracy,, but just a good starting point.

He has learned that his ammo is pretty consistent, and most loads were pretty tightly grouped. But he also learned that due to the actual velocities,, and SEEING it on a chrono,, he realized that his fears of too much pressure were all in his own worried mind. He's just the type of person who's cautious, AND wants to study known, properly tested data before doing anything unsafe. In his mind,, the volume differences was a worry about pressures.

He has a large quantity of military brass & he's gonna search for some factory brass to further test stuff.

 

[daveag.]

BL -C2 is an excellent, accurate powder. I've noticed this with Lake City brass. That's 99% of my shooting brass.