ReLoading Accident

[Colonialgirl]

I don't have a link, nor all the details, But apparently there was an explosion in a garage where a couple of people were doing ammunition reloading. I believe they said it occurred in Venice, FL and the firefighters had to be cautious due to the amount of gun powder in the structure.
If I get a link and more details, I'll post it here.

 

[Jeepnik]

Gunpowder never concerned us. Nor loaded ammo. Black powder on the other hand was a bit more concerning.

Heck I was put down by an aerosol spray can that blew and hit the rear of my left shoulder. Left on heck of a bruise, let me tell you.

 

[JFB]

Florida. . . Garage Explosion...?????

(No reason to consider FL in more likely than ALL States)

 

[Colonialgirl]

https://www.mysuncoast.com/2020/10/15/happening-now-explosions-with-injuries-venice/

Quote:

By ABC7 Staff | October 15, 2020 at 4:01 PM EDT - Updated October 15 at 11:59 PM
VENICE, Fla. (WWSB) - Sarasota County Fire Department crews were on the scene at the 100 block of Sunset Beach Drive in Venice.

SCFD says they were called around 2:14 pm.

Two people were flown to burn centers.

A 2 alarm fire was called for a garage that was engulfed in flames.

Water was reported on the fire at 2:56 pm. Officials say the fire was under control as of 3:50 p.m.

Fire crews say 2 people were working with 80 pounds of gun fire that created an explosion in the garage. An RV near the garage also caught on fire.

I had to sort through several postings to find one that was NOT full of BS saying "tons of gun powder"; "reloading accidents 'frequent' " etc etc.

 

[blammer]

Maybe none, but would be curious to know how many rules of reloading they violated. Smoking? Drinking? Powder containers left open? Any gas appliances around?

 

[blackhawknj]

"80 pounds of gun fire" ?

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

There's not enough info here to figure where to start, but with just the comment about "80 lbs of gun fire" (powder?) it seems a good bet any careful reloader can probably start putting together a pretty good story of what went wrong.

Just the storage of that much in a residence is problematic. There's info out there about all the uniform fire codes and how to store various quantities of smokeless powder. One should check with local authorities, but I think the normal limit for residential storage is topped out at 50 lbs, isn't it? And that's with a specified magazine. CA limits us to 20 lbs without some kind of a permit, which I have no idea where one would get it.

Rick C

 

[JFB]

A little googling
here is Street view
https://www.google.com/maps/@27.0671186,-82.4214051,3a,75y,90h,93.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL6ysP1tOkBAlYH3lpmXRwA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

"The whole area at U.S. 41 and Sunset Drive, there is still what we believe is ammo going off at the incident location," Sheriff's spokeswoman Kaitlyn Perez said. "If it's ammo popping, there's a ton of ammo in that house."
https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/local/venice/2020/10/15/injuries-popping-ammunition-reported-south-venice-home-explosion/3668429001/

 

[blume357]

From the picture on the internet and going on Google maps it's not the home that is engulfed in flames but the big garage work shop beside the home.

For what it's worth I will confirm JFB's link above...that is the location..

 

[Pat-inCO]

Sheriff's spokeswoman Kaitlyn Perez said.
"If it's ammo popping, there's a ton of ammo in that house."

Another moron adding her own slant rather than facts. :roll:

 

[JFB]

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/sarasotacounty/venice-fire-explosion-men-refilling-ammo/67-b7d690c0-d0ba-4abc-ac83-59662ff4a268

10,000 loaded rounds and 100 pounds BLACK POWDER (along with ox/acl tanks etc)

as for being a "tonn" assuming 2000lb that would be about 40,000 (7.62X51)

the reason i went to the trouble to get weigh of ammo. I just moved 2000 and It sure felt like a tonn to my back

 

[DeletedMember275]

Hi,

There's not enough info here to figure where to start, but with just the comment about "80 lbs of gun fire" (powder?) it seems a good bet any careful reloader can probably start putting together a pretty good story of what went wrong.

Just the storage of that much in a residence is problematic. There's info out there about all the uniform fire codes and how to store various quantities of smokeless powder. One should check with local authorities, but I think the normal limit for residential storage is topped out at 50 lbs, isn't it? And that's with a specified magazine. CA limits us to 20 lbs without some kind of a permit, which I have no idea where one would get it.

Rick C

I think you're a bit high on that 50 pound estimate. IIRC, the state of Maryland limited one to eight (8) pounds of smokeless powder unless they had a dedicated powder magazine, separate from the house. I can't see Cali allowing over 6 times that amount.

 

[blume357]

From my limited knowledge the folks trying to put out the fire have very little to worry about with the loose loaded ammo or even the powder left in their various containers..... except.. if the ammo is in sealed ammo cans or if somewhere in there is a couple pounds of black powder....

few years back someone here led me to an internet site that sells black powder... but they can only ship a maximum of 50lbs to you at a time.

 

[gunzo]

Sounds similar to an accident that happened in Ky. 11 years ago come January. Seems the brand of black powder a dealer was breaking down came in an 80 pound keg. I didn't know him but a good friend bought his black from this guy.

Two guys in the garage repackaging into smaller units for resale. A forgotten salamander heater with a thermostat decided to fire up. A man & his wife perished, & a helper lived to tell the chain of events.

I don't remember for sure about the fire, but thinking it wasn't real bad as there wasn't much left of the place after the bang.

 

[blume357]

I guess not.... back in the 80's I was 'bragging' to a high school friend of my wife's who was a major in the Marines and serving in Navy Intelligence.... I told him about when I was a teenager making pipe bombs with black powder.... he let me finished.... and then calmly told me if I ever decided to do that again to put paraffin on the threads of the pipe before capping it.......... that is one of the first times I realized just what a lucky s.o.b. I am.

 

[caryc]

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/sarasotacounty/venice-fire-explosion-men-refilling-ammo/67-b7d690c0-d0ba-4abc-ac83-59662ff4a268

10,000 loaded rounds and 100 pounds BLACK POWDER (along with ox/acl tanks etc)

as for being a "tonn" assuming 2000lb that would be about 40,000 (7.62X51)

the reason i went to the trouble to get weigh of ammo. I just moved 2000 and It sure felt like a tonn to my back

Who the $%& needs to keep 100 pounds of black powder? What were they planning on doing with it?

 

[Rick Courtright]

I think you're a bit high on that 50 pound estimate. IIRC, the state of Maryland limited one to eight (8) pounds of smokeless powder unless they had a dedicated powder magazine, separate from the house. I can't see Cali allowing over 6 times that amount.

Hi,

Please re-read my comments about the CA limit: in a residence, 20 lbs max smokeless (and ONE lb black powder last time I checked) without a permit to go over that figure. Nobody I know has a clue how to get such a permit, including the fellow I get my powder and a lot of reloading components from. His permits are commercial... dunno what they limit him to on the premises, but I think he's limited to 20 lbs "visible on display" or some such wording. He keeps NO powder on display.

The 50 lb figure comes to us from SAAMI and the fire code guys, with the caveat to check your local regulations first. As I understand it, their limits are maximums. In other words, if there's no more restrictive law in your area, you may store up to 20 lbs in a residence without a magazine. Up to 50 lbs may be stored with an appropriate magazine, which they define. Your local regulations have precedence over these limits. Obviously MD overrides the 20 lb limit, and CA "plays along" with one of their "impossible to comply" ploys on exceeding the 20 lb limit, meaning effectively we have a State max of 20 lbs. Now I've never asked, but have seen recommendations to check with your homeowners insurance folks to see what they have to say as well.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder.pdf

Rick C

 

[JFB]

[
Who the $%& needs to keep 100 pounds of black powder? What were they planning on doing with it?

Burt Gummer

 

[blume357]

Same question could be asked of some on this forum ..... who needs a couple thousand rounds of ammo or several guns?
(and I know for a fact I'm underestimating)

 

[gramps]

If you shoot 12 pound cannons, at 2 lb black powder per charge. One hundred pounds black powder would be 50 shots. A weekends worth of fun!
gramps

 

[Biggfoot44]

Humm . I suppose could have been repackaging from bulk to smaller containers for their own use , or as a group buy for their reenactor/ skirmiser compatriots .

But I gotta admit , my first though was an Antifa bomb making facility that got careless .

 

[blume357]

Or maybe some of those bumble bee boys or what ever they are called that wear the Hawaiian shirts and cause trouble.

I was going through the photos I have on my 'farsebook' site and ran across this one of a friend doing some prepping at a little practice session from a few years back:

 

[gjgalligan]

Quote:

SCFD says they were called around 2:14 pm.

Water was reported on the fire at 2:56 pm. Officials say the fire was under control as of 3:50 p.m.

End quote.

42 MINUTES TO GET WATER ON THE FIRE?????

I was on a semi-rural volunteer fire department for 13 years and the only possible time that amount of time would elapse is during a winter/ice storm. And even then I don't recall any such time lapse.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Quote:

SCFD says they were called around 2:14 pm.

Water was reported on the fire at 2:56 pm. Officials say the fire was under control as of 3:50 p.m.

End quote.

42 MINUTES TO GET WATER ON THE FIRE?????

Some years back I had a client who was trying to get on with a local FD. He worked with lots of agencies as a "paid call firefighter" and said the biggest item to be discussed and settled was "Who's gonna pay for this?" And that was done BEFORE any water came out of the hose. The problem starts with overlapping territories and multi agency response when the fire may cover three or four "jurisdictions." Perhaps there was a similar situation in this case?

Settling the money issues with these huge Western fires probably takes longer than getting a gun case to the Supreme Court!

Rick C

 

[Colonialgirl]

There was an intersection In Southern Calif where One corner was the City of Santa Ana, another corner was the City of Orange, a third corner was the City of Anaheim and the 4th corner was Orange county. Arguments use to occur over what law enforcement agency HAD to handle the accident. Sometimes the answer was determined by where the wreckage was located.
Note: had a spouse who worked for one of the agencies as a dispatcher.

 

[Cholo]

I think I'd be more concerned if there had been 30k primers stacked together than I would be for 80 #'s of smokeless powder. I had about 50+ primers explode on my bench in the 70's and to say that I'm lucky to have only ruined my Rx glasses is an understatement. My face looked like I'd been hunting with Dick Cheney. It was probably as loud as an old 60's cherry bomb.

I can't imagine what 1k would do...30k? :shock:

"Though gunpowder is flammable, and the chemicals used to blue steel barrels are nothing you'd want to gargle with, mishandled primer compound will leave nothing but a smoking crater behind."

http://www.$outdoorlife.com/cartridge-primer-technology-developments

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Got a really bad response to that link!

 

[Jimbo357mag]

This is what the Fire Marshal says about smokeless powder in Florida.

69A-2.009 Storage; Smokeless Propellant.
(1) All smokeless propellants shall be stored in ICC-approved shipping containers.
(2) Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not to exceed 20 pounds may be stored in residences; quantities over 20 pounds but not to exceed 100 pounds shall be stored in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least 1 inch nominal thickness.

It then goes on to talk about commercial storage.

 

[Cholo]

Got a really bad response to that link!

Hmmm. It worked for me without my protection alerting me, and it even had that little lock on it, FWIW.

I disabled the link. If anybody wants to click on it just remove the $ after www.

 

[Rick Courtright]

This is what the Fire Marshal says about smokeless powder in Florida.

Hi,

Jimbo, have you talked to your homeowners insurance folks to see if they're more restrictive?

Rick C