andrewst35
Bearcat
Looking to reload 308W. Is the rcbs worth the extra money or save and go with the lee?
RCBS Deluxe or Lee Collet dies?
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Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
Hi,
I'm not familiar w/ that RCBS die, but do use the Lee Collet. Bought it for use w/ .303 British, which is notorious for short case life.
It works as advertised! Cases used to go 2 or 3 loadings before signs of imminent failure (head separation) could be seen. I have cases loaded using the collet that are now up to 6 and 7 loadings, still in "good" shape.
Rick C
I'm not familiar w/ that RCBS die, but do use the Lee Collet. Bought it for use w/ .303 British, which is notorious for short case life.
It works as advertised! Cases used to go 2 or 3 loadings before signs of imminent failure (head separation) could be seen. I have cases loaded using the collet that are now up to 6 and 7 loadings, still in "good" shape.
Rick C
andrewst35
Bearcat
The Rcbs includes a neck only sizing die Plus fl and bullet seater. Wasn't sure if it'd be smart to save to money and use the lee.
captainkirk
Blackhawk
I have not used the RCBS deluxe, but have used the Lee collet dies with good results.
I have standard RCBS dies for handgun rounds and find them to be of good quality too.
captainkirk
I have standard RCBS dies for handgun rounds and find them to be of good quality too.
captainkirk
volshooter
Buckeye
Most of my dies are Lee, I like them.
Divernhunter
Single-Sixer
I prefer RCBS dies.
mattsbox99
Hunter
Hmm, all I use are RCBS, in fact that is all I have except for the Dillon proprietary dies on my SDBs.
Is your 308 a target rifle or what, because if its a semi auto you'll want to full length size everytime.
Lee makes plenty good dies, I wouldn't worry about their quality. I'd have to special order any of their stuff up here so I just use the stuff I can buy locally, which is RCBS.
Is your 308 a target rifle or what, because if its a semi auto you'll want to full length size everytime.
Lee makes plenty good dies, I wouldn't worry about their quality. I'd have to special order any of their stuff up here so I just use the stuff I can buy locally, which is RCBS.
GaSidewinder
Bearcat
I have used more RCBS then Lee but like them both. RCBS seems to be mighty friendly when it comes to issues with their products. Just called last week and told them about a problem with the first die I ever bought - a 1972 30-06 full length sizing die. They had me send it back to either fix or replace. That is pretty common for RCBS. On the other hand, I haven't had to send anything back to Lee.
wizofwas
Buckeye
I've really only just started reloading about a year ago and have RCBS dies. I've had no problems with them at all.
FergusonTO35
Hunter
I've been using Lee dies in all kinds of calibers and guns with perfect success. I don't doubt RCBS makes good products but I wouldn't gain anything from switching. Remember that if you buy the RCBS, or most other dies other than Lee, you'll also have to buy a shell holder and reloading data if you don't already have it.
If you're shooting a rifle that will let you neck size only, that Lee set is great.
Not even any lube needed for the neck collets.
I use that set on my 22-250 and like it so much I'm going to get a set for my 220 Swift.
I always used RCBS or Redding till I had a chance to try that bottle neck collet set.
Not even any lube needed for the neck collets.
I use that set on my 22-250 and like it so much I'm going to get a set for my 220 Swift.
I always used RCBS or Redding till I had a chance to try that bottle neck collet set.
slippingaway
Blackhawk
I have RCBS and Lee rifle dies, they both seem to work great for me. I will give the Lees a slight edge because I've never broken a de-priming pin on the Lees, but I have on the RCBS (on a weekend, so I had to wait 6 days before the new one showed up, along with a spare).
Enigma
Hunter
One word of advice if you buy the Lee collet die - READ and FOLLOW the instructions when you set up the collet die, or else it won't work properly.
I really like the Lee collet dies so far, and feel that they are a tremendous value as long as you're loading for a bolt gun. You WILL need to full-length size for any other type of action.
While we're on the subject of full-length sizing, here is a very good method of setting up a full-length sizing die. There are other methods, but this one works pretty well and should insure that your brass will be properly sized: http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2009/02/19/setting-up-a-full-length-sizing-die/
I really like the Lee collet dies so far, and feel that they are a tremendous value as long as you're loading for a bolt gun. You WILL need to full-length size for any other type of action.
While we're on the subject of full-length sizing, here is a very good method of setting up a full-length sizing die. There are other methods, but this one works pretty well and should insure that your brass will be properly sized: http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2009/02/19/setting-up-a-full-length-sizing-die/
CLAYPOOL
Single-Sixer
The Lee "Deluxe Set" comes with a full lenth die also and Collet..
David Wile
Bearcat
Hey folks,
In an earlier post it was mentioned that if you buy Lee dies you do not have to buy a shell holder or reloading information. That is one of my problems with Lee - they sell the sizzle and not the beef. I never bought a set of dies to get a shell holder or reloading information. I buy dies to size and reload cartridges. I buy shell holders to facilitate the use of the dies to that end purpose. I also buy reloading manuals to find information on reloading as well as data for particular loads.
I have been using RCBS and Lyman dies for over 50 years now, and never wore any out or broke anything other than decapping pins. They make a good product, and for a .308 Winchester, all you need is the same old full length 2-die set that has been in production all the time I have been reloading. You do not need a collet die nor a neck sizer die, but you certainly can buy them if you want to spend the bucks.
I don't need a shell holder with every die set I own. Once I have a #2 shell holder for .308 Winchester, that same shell holder will work for .243 Winchester, .257 Roberts, .270 Winchester, 25-06, 30-06, 7.62X39 Russian, and many other cartridges. That's six or more cartridges I load that all use the same shell holder. I certainly do not need a half dozen of the same shell holder.
When it comes to reloading manuals, however, I find I need a lot of them for reference material. I have all the Lyman manuals going back to the early 1950s. I also have multiple editions of other manuals including Speer, Hornady, ABCs of Reloading, and several others. I still have and still use all of these manuals. There is a wealth of information in those manuals.
There are lots of new gimicks out there to attract the reloading bucks, but loading 30-06 cartridges for deer still works the same with a plain old full length sizing 2-die set. No collet die or factory crimp die is going to make that 30-06 shoot any better than a plain old 2 die-set - and in many cases, it is likely to shoot worse.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
In an earlier post it was mentioned that if you buy Lee dies you do not have to buy a shell holder or reloading information. That is one of my problems with Lee - they sell the sizzle and not the beef. I never bought a set of dies to get a shell holder or reloading information. I buy dies to size and reload cartridges. I buy shell holders to facilitate the use of the dies to that end purpose. I also buy reloading manuals to find information on reloading as well as data for particular loads.
I have been using RCBS and Lyman dies for over 50 years now, and never wore any out or broke anything other than decapping pins. They make a good product, and for a .308 Winchester, all you need is the same old full length 2-die set that has been in production all the time I have been reloading. You do not need a collet die nor a neck sizer die, but you certainly can buy them if you want to spend the bucks.
I don't need a shell holder with every die set I own. Once I have a #2 shell holder for .308 Winchester, that same shell holder will work for .243 Winchester, .257 Roberts, .270 Winchester, 25-06, 30-06, 7.62X39 Russian, and many other cartridges. That's six or more cartridges I load that all use the same shell holder. I certainly do not need a half dozen of the same shell holder.
When it comes to reloading manuals, however, I find I need a lot of them for reference material. I have all the Lyman manuals going back to the early 1950s. I also have multiple editions of other manuals including Speer, Hornady, ABCs of Reloading, and several others. I still have and still use all of these manuals. There is a wealth of information in those manuals.
There are lots of new gimicks out there to attract the reloading bucks, but loading 30-06 cartridges for deer still works the same with a plain old full length sizing 2-die set. No collet die or factory crimp die is going to make that 30-06 shoot any better than a plain old 2 die-set - and in many cases, it is likely to shoot worse.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
andrewst35
Bearcat
David- so how many reloads do you get out of your brass if you FL size all of the time?
David Wile
Bearcat
Hey Andrew,
I have 30-06 cases that have been loaded more than 100 times, but just saying that without any clarification can be very misleading. There really are a number of things to consider when talking about case life in reloading, and there are also a number of things to consider when talking about the throat life of a rifle barrel.
The biggest factor affecting both case life and barrel throat life expectancy is how hot you make your loads. I was never interested in shooting through concrete buildings or armored vehicles; my interest has always been in bench rest shooting and hunting. With those interests in mind, I have always loaded my cartridges in the medium to lower ranges.
Many years ago I used to neck size my bolt action cartridges with my regular full length sizer, but I was not a good enough shooter to notice any improvement in accuracy performance. After some time testing with neck sizing cases and not finding any difference, I simply set my locking ring for full length sizing my cases all the time. Set that way, my die is ready to load all 30-06 cases whether for use in my bench rest rifle or my M-1 Garands.
I have known some folks who shoot the hottest loads in the simple quest for speed. Some of their loads are so hot their case necks split on first firing. Some of these folks shooting ultra hot loads also accept the idea that their barrel life may only be 100 rounds. Their loads are so hot the fire burns the throat of the barrel rendering it no longer usable. Some of these folks buy barrels by the dozen and change them out every 100 rounds or so. They may have their old barrels rebored to a bigger caliber, but the barrel is finished at the original chambering. I would not say what they are doing is wrong or foolish. If they want to spend their money that way, good for them. For myself, I would rather shoot milder loads that can kill both paper targets as well as animals up to moose size and still get a lot of usage out of both my brass as well as my barrel.
I have had very few cases split on me in over 50 years of reloading. I doubt if I have had a total of 100 split cases in all the calibers I have shot. Of the cases that did split, they were cases I obtained used that someone else had been reloading. I have never had a case split that I bought either as new commercial ammo or as new commercial brass. Never. But remember, I do load on the mid to mild side. I also shoot a lot of my own cast bullets, and that in itself is gentle to your gun and brass - unless you are shooting them hot, of course.
Many years ago I use to anneal my brass every so often with the idea of extending case life. When I realized I had Remington cases I had reloaded thirty or forty times without any splits, I gave up on annealing my brass. In the last 25 years, I have also given up on the idea of getting used brass. Used brass was the only brass I ever had split, so I simply started using new brass. The only exception is buying surplus Lake City military brass. It is once fired by the US military and makes excellent brass. I currently have several hundred Lake City Match cases that I use for 30-06. I also still have a few hundred Remington 30-06 cases that I have loaded over and over. I also like the Lake City brass for .308 and .223 and have yet to split any of them. Again remember, I stay away from the hot stuff.
So, to answer your question as to how may load I may get from my 30-06 brass, I can say that I have not found out as yet what the limit is for my shooting style. If you want to shoot toward the hotter end, you can still get six, ten, maybe twenty loadings. It all depends on how hot you need to go. Full length resizing has very little to do with case life.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
I have 30-06 cases that have been loaded more than 100 times, but just saying that without any clarification can be very misleading. There really are a number of things to consider when talking about case life in reloading, and there are also a number of things to consider when talking about the throat life of a rifle barrel.
The biggest factor affecting both case life and barrel throat life expectancy is how hot you make your loads. I was never interested in shooting through concrete buildings or armored vehicles; my interest has always been in bench rest shooting and hunting. With those interests in mind, I have always loaded my cartridges in the medium to lower ranges.
Many years ago I used to neck size my bolt action cartridges with my regular full length sizer, but I was not a good enough shooter to notice any improvement in accuracy performance. After some time testing with neck sizing cases and not finding any difference, I simply set my locking ring for full length sizing my cases all the time. Set that way, my die is ready to load all 30-06 cases whether for use in my bench rest rifle or my M-1 Garands.
I have known some folks who shoot the hottest loads in the simple quest for speed. Some of their loads are so hot their case necks split on first firing. Some of these folks shooting ultra hot loads also accept the idea that their barrel life may only be 100 rounds. Their loads are so hot the fire burns the throat of the barrel rendering it no longer usable. Some of these folks buy barrels by the dozen and change them out every 100 rounds or so. They may have their old barrels rebored to a bigger caliber, but the barrel is finished at the original chambering. I would not say what they are doing is wrong or foolish. If they want to spend their money that way, good for them. For myself, I would rather shoot milder loads that can kill both paper targets as well as animals up to moose size and still get a lot of usage out of both my brass as well as my barrel.
I have had very few cases split on me in over 50 years of reloading. I doubt if I have had a total of 100 split cases in all the calibers I have shot. Of the cases that did split, they were cases I obtained used that someone else had been reloading. I have never had a case split that I bought either as new commercial ammo or as new commercial brass. Never. But remember, I do load on the mid to mild side. I also shoot a lot of my own cast bullets, and that in itself is gentle to your gun and brass - unless you are shooting them hot, of course.
Many years ago I use to anneal my brass every so often with the idea of extending case life. When I realized I had Remington cases I had reloaded thirty or forty times without any splits, I gave up on annealing my brass. In the last 25 years, I have also given up on the idea of getting used brass. Used brass was the only brass I ever had split, so I simply started using new brass. The only exception is buying surplus Lake City military brass. It is once fired by the US military and makes excellent brass. I currently have several hundred Lake City Match cases that I use for 30-06. I also still have a few hundred Remington 30-06 cases that I have loaded over and over. I also like the Lake City brass for .308 and .223 and have yet to split any of them. Again remember, I stay away from the hot stuff.
So, to answer your question as to how may load I may get from my 30-06 brass, I can say that I have not found out as yet what the limit is for my shooting style. If you want to shoot toward the hotter end, you can still get six, ten, maybe twenty loadings. It all depends on how hot you need to go. Full length resizing has very little to do with case life.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
andrewst35
Bearcat
Thanks for the info. I wont be hot rodding the new rifle. Just target shooting.
