Prejudiced CCW instructor

[contender]

Miss Penny's niece & her hubby are signed up for a CCW class this coming weekend. She's a bit nervous,, so she's asked us to give them an introductory class this week.
Well, Miss Penny found out that the CCW instructor has some very strict rules for his class.
NO revolvers allowed.
NO semi-autos that hold less than 10 rounds.
NO guns that cost less than $149.00
And he actually has a list of guns not allowed in his class. (Jennings, some Taurus, a Walther, no .45 cal, no 44 mags, etc.)
The no revolver part has Miss Penny's feathers ruffled. We often teach ladies to use a "KISS" method when it comes to a handgun. Why? Because most ladies won't spend the time in practice to become familiar with most semi's. (Magazine, safeties, mag releases, slide racking etc.)

And looking at his website,, he's a FFL,, yet will no longer accept shipments of handguns "from other FFL's or internet sales." He claims to be a AGI trained gunsmith. He claims to own a shop,, yet the picture shows one glass display case,, and maybe a dozen handguns.

If y'all want to look at it; website is crawford concealed carry dot com. Union Mills NC.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I checked out his website. Doesn't look so much prejudiced as just goofball with some of the crap he has on there about catering to women and new shooters but no revolvers, And that exploding firearms and 10 rd thing is just as stupid - my Shield would be banned, as well as my H&K P7M8. :roll:

My BS detector is pegging towards a Roscoe P Coltrane washout.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

H.O.W.

Highly Opinionated Wannabee

 

[JFB]

I would bet his 10 round thing is more related to the qualification requirements

"The qualification consists of 10 shots at 3 yards, 15 shots at 5 yards, and 15 shots at 7 yards. The minimum qualifying score is 70%, 28 of 40,on a B27 target"

I am surprised he dosent have a two mag requirement so you have 10/5 loaded before going to the line.

I have sleep since taking the test decade past, my instructor provided 22 Ruger Mark pistols and two mags. the entire class did mag changes at the same time and return to the line together
we did have one that change mag, return to line and startes firing before given OK

 

[AJGUNNER]

Real simple---the NO Revolver rule would have me advising anyone to run---run far away from this person and don't even bother trying to sway him. I hope you let the niece and hubby read these comments before they hit the class. Hopefully they don't have money down and can just join a lesson from you and Miss Penny instead of wasting time and money.

 

[redhawker]

Find a new instructor.

 

[arfmel]

He sounds like a nitwit

 

[powder smoke]

Stupid rules I'd move on! ps

 

[blume357]

Find a new instructor.

That's my opinion too.

Many woman do not have the hand strength to rack the slide on a simi-auto and so really need to train and carry a revolver.

 

[DeletedMember275]

Yeah, he wouldn't get any of my money, for a variety of reasons. No revolvers, no .45s, and no low-cap semi-autos.

 

[GunnyGene]

Yeah, he wouldn't get any of my money, for a variety of reasons. No revolvers, no .45s, and no low-cap semi-autos.

Poor business plan if he intends to make any money at this.

 

[contender]

Well, Miss Penny's niece & her hubby are already paid. Hubby found him & signed them up. They are going to take it.
BUT,, before the class,, we are going to teach them a lot,, AND make them come to us for additional training.
He rents guns for his class,, and since he's supplying guns, ammo & such for an additional $20,, I'll bet they will be .22 cal Rugers. Just from looking at his stuff,,, I'm guessing that'll be the case.
Hubby is going to rent a gun,, as his 9mm doesn't have 10 round mags.

My advice was to find a different instructor,, but they are "committed" to it already. So,, we are going to advise them to take the class,,, pay close attention to the classroom portion about the laws & deadly force etc. And to NOT worry about doing much except finishing & getting the certificate. We will be giving them a lot more instruction for sure.
And you can rest assured,, revolvers WILL be included.

Reading his credentials,, I had to chuckle.
NRA instructor. So am I.
CCW instructor. Well, I have chosen to not bother with getting that certification.
Expert marksman. How does he quantify that????????
Former Georgia LEO. So what,, many LEO's are NOT gun people.
AGI gunsmith. Most of their stuff is online & all. Not as accredited as a real gunsmithing school. And I'd bet a lot of us here could take & pass their courses. (I know,, as I looked into it years ago.)

No,, this guy is not going to survive in this business with his attitude. While I do understand his PREFERENCES for quality firearms,, and for firearms with 10 rounds or more,,, it's NOT the real world. And many ladies will not be comfortable with his choices of firearms & such.
Once they get all this over with,, we'll be having them return here & I'll get a better understanding of his teaching methods when I question them.

Still,,, it has Miss Penny upset,, and she'll be more than helpful for them. And,, I'm going to do a little quiet investigation into this guy. He's in MY home territory,, and I know way too many folks around the shooting community that will give me the skinny on him.

 

[Fox Mike]

I agree, this guy seems a bit 'iffy'. I remember a comment my CCW instructor told the class. He was asked what he would do if he had to reload his revolver. His comment was that if that happened he was no longer in a defensive occurrence, he was in a shoot out.

 

[Thumbcocker]

When Mrs. Thumbcocker and I took the CCW course we were the only ones with revolvers. She used her pinned and recessed Model 19 Smith and I shot a Model 24 4" with full wadcutters. Single actions were prohibited or I would have used a Flattop .44 special since that is what I would like have in the woods. The instructors were competent retired Illinois State Police instructors but they preached the gospel of Glock all through the course. When they passed a Glock around I held it with 2 fingers (like a dead mouse) and said I didn't want my Smith to get Glock cooties.

We caught some grief from the instructors. Until the end of the course. Guess who shot the highest score in the class. (hint balding old fat guy who used a .44 special. 298 out of 300. Dropped 2 points at the end.)

Mrs. Thumbcocker shot in the 270's and would have done better if she was in practice. The Glock lovers didn't say a whole lot then.

Later a co-worker of mine shot the same course with the same instructors. She is Korean and says she is 5' tall but I think she is fudging a bit.Maybe 105 pounds soaking wet. She used my Model 31 Smith in .32 long and outshot many Glock luggers. She had never shot a handgun before a week or so prior to the course.

 

[tinman]

Find a new instructor.

Ditto

 

[Rancher Will]

I agree withy the above. Run, don't walk, away from this Instructor. His "rules" are not only stupid but indicate that the has no real life knowledge of what he is supposed to be teaching. Who ever is sponsoring this "instructor" should be notified of the problem and a new instructor substituted.

 

[blume357]

Well, since they are committed... and realize the issues my suggestion is to go with the flow during the class and not question his opinions and teaching.... this just usually slows things down and does not accomplish anything. Now, once they have completed the class and hopefully passed then I would consider writing a letter of concerns... it might not change anything but at least they would have gotten to say something.

 

[Thumbcocker]

Looking at the website it doesn't mention no revolvers in the prohibited section. Is the no revolvers in the material they got after they paid?

 

[daveg.inkc]

It’s on website. “Leave Revolvers at Home!” I would think a good instructor would allow both revolvers and auto-loaders. Missouri used to require both to shoot in class.

 

[BDM1]

Don't waste your time on knuckleheads.

 

[CLAYPOOL]

Back in the "OLD DAYS", the "COPPERS" shot a whole lot of people with Revolvers and .38's.. PRE .357 Mag time.

 

[CLAYPOOL]

We encourage ladies to use revolvers as they all around here know to pull the trigger. They are NOT intimated by all sorts of things to do.

 

[blackhawknj]

Too opinionated and dogmatic. Jeff Cooper made his opinions on the superiority of the M1911 . 45 ACP known, but he acknowledged the value of the revolver, even in a "minor" caliber, in the hands of a capable shooter. And he told a reader:
"As much I prefer the 45 I wear a 44 in bear country."
Charlie Askins said he preferred the auto for defense work, but as Bill Jordan pointed out, he adopted it LONG after his gunfighting days were over.

 

[blume357]

The classes I've taken at Front Sight do limit the type of handgun you shoot but not revolvers... what is limited is small pocket pistols and the type of ammunition. Most of this has to do with the safety on the range and practicality of the class.
But Front Sight also has a saying... " Any gun will do if you will do"

 

[Rick Courtright]

I agree, this guy seems a bit 'iffy'. I remember a comment my CCW instructor told the class. He was asked what he would do if he had to reload his revolver. His comment was that if that happened he was no longer in a defensive occurrence, he was in a shoot out.

Hi,

Yabbut, he STILL needs to reload, unless he's involved with some unbelievably courteous BGs who "call it off" because it's not fair to shoot a guy whose gun is empty. Maybe I'm too simplistic, but it seems to me as long as someone's shooting at me, it's still a defensive situation I'm in.There's an awful lot of stuff out there folks don't seem to have thought through too well...

Rick C

 

[Mike J]

I agree, this guy seems a bit 'iffy'. I remember a comment my CCW instructor told the class. He was asked what he would do if he had to reload his revolver. His comment was that if that happened he was no longer in a defensive occurrence, he was in a shoot out.

Hi,

Yabbut, he STILL needs to reload, unless he's involved with some unbelievably courteous BGs who "call it off" because it's not fair to shoot a guy whose gun is empty. Maybe I'm too simplistic, but it seems to me as long as someone's shooting at me, it's still a defensive situation I'm in.There's an awful lot of stuff out there folks don't seem to have thought through too well...

Rick C

I agree, It isn't that hard to carry a speed loader.

 

[Mike J]

I agree with Blume, Go along, get along. Get whatever good you can from the class & move on.

 

[exavid]

Ditto, if you are already committed go with it. IMHO one of the most important part of CCW training is a thorough discussion of legal use of self defense. A lot of folks don't realize that once the threat to them is gone you don't shoot. A fleeing perp isn't a target for us civilians. Knowledge of your state's specific self defense rules are very important to cover in a good class. Shooting is good but if someone hasn't handled a gun before taking a CCW class they should go get a handgun and some good range time before signing up for a CCW class.

 

[gramps]

I agree, this guy seems a bit 'iffy'. I remember a comment my CCW instructor told the class. He was asked what he would do if he had to reload his revolver. His comment was that if that happened he was no longer in a defensive occurrence, he was in a shoot out.

Hi,

Yabbut, he STILL needs to reload, unless he's involved with some unbelievably courteous BGs who "call it off" because it's not fair to shoot a guy whose gun is empty. Maybe I'm too simplistic, but it seems to me as long as someone's shooting at me, it's still a defensive situation I'm in.There's an awful lot of stuff out there folks don't seem to have thought through too well...

Rick C

I agree, It isn't that hard to carry a speed loader.

Or a second gun ala “New York reload”
gramps

 

[blume357]

You can't beat education and I believe that is the long term solution to this countries gun violence problem. You can always get something out of a class. Someone here wrote directly to me years ago that if you are going to carry a gun then you need to get and continue to get as much training as you can afford. This is the reason (excuse if you will) that I have gone to so many gun training classes over the years. One of the best is a force on force class at the Sig Academy where you not only learn how you will most likely act in a deadly confrontation but also when not to draw or fire your gun and what to do after you have. I've also been to a number of business building seminars and it is not unusual for me to decide that what the instructor is teaching is not the way I'm going to do it. This does not mean they are wrong, it's just not the direction I want to do.