Penetration vs Expansion

[blume357]

Just after Thanksgiving a few years ago I picked up some pumpkins neighbors left out by the road ... took them down to my family's farm for the deer and threw one out in the pond to shoot at. I was shooting it using my Ruger PC 9mm carbine... and hitting it with fmj... it was about 50ft away and it was hard to tell if I was making kits... then I switched to some kind of hollow point / hydro shock ammo... started blowing chunks off with those..... was kind of nasty to see if you thought about it too hard.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Ginger vs Mary Ann . . . Ford vs Chevy . . . etc. ;)

 

[s4s4u]

Ginger vs Mary Ann . . . Ford vs Chevy . . . etc. ;)

 

[Jeepnik]

A couple of fellows proved over a century ago that when it comes to handgun bullets bigger is better. And ever since folks have been trying to prove otherwise and failed.
Oh improvements in bullet design have occurred but those improvements apply to both larger and smaller calibers. In the end you still start with a bigger hole.

 

[TestEngineer]

Okay, let me simplify this debate down to physics. When a bullet leaves the muzzle, it contains X amount of energy. That amount is 1/2 its mass times its velocity squared.

So take 2 different style bullets of the same weight and caliber and see what they might do to a live target.

Bullet #1 is a HP designed for expansion without penetration. It will expend 100% of it's energy expanding on the surface of the target. This energy transfer will jack up the target by creating massive shock. That's called "stopping power", even though the target may survive the hit.

Bullet #2 is a FMJ that doesn't expand at all. It will go completely through the target and only use a (small) percentage of its energy to do so. The hole it creates may cut some vital organs causing the target to eventually die, but the target may continue the attack and kill you before it dies.

Neither bullet is ideal for self defense. The best bullet design is one with "controlled expansion". It should expend the bulk of its energy between initial impact and the expanding exit. This creates a shock wave inside the soft organs of the target. The shock wave is MORE DEADLY and has MORE STOPPING POWER than either of the 2 fringe type bullets.

That's why these (controlled expansion) types of bullets are not allowed in wars, but ARE encouraged (or mandated) for hunting.

I'll take expansion over penetration for self defense rounds. I want to STOP the threat, not necessarily KILL the attacker.

 

[s4s4u]

Bullet #3 is a WFN (wide flat nose) hard cast (could be fully jacketed) that does not expand, but creates a massive wound channel when driven at "reasonable" velocities. Will usually continue on course even after bone contact. Almost always exits, most often creating a larger exit that entrance. Shock to target upon impact will be evident and target is likely to bleed out quickly with a hit in upper torso. Probably the closest thing to your perfect projectile.

It should expend the bulk of its energy between initial impact and the expanding exit. This creates a shock wave inside the soft organs of the target. The shock wave is MORE DEADLY and has MORE STOPPING POWER than either of the 2 fringe type bullets.

 

[GunnyGene]

Deadpool obviously had the perfect ammo. ;) I don't know what it was, but I want some. :devilish:

 

[Wvfarrier]

I got shot ITLD with a 32 acp. It dead centered by solar plexus, bounced off a rib and exited just under my left shoulder. I barely noticed at first, felt like a bee sting. I still managed to subdue the attacker who kept saying "No way, I shot you man" over and over. If the bullet had expanded or been of a larger diameter....I like would have succumbed before realizing I was in trouble.

Placement usually trumps all but diameter helps.

GOD's grace trumps all

 

[Mobuck]

^^^ A M E N