Wondering if anyone has SBR'd a PC carbine? Any experience good or bad? Considering doing it to a PC9 or PC4 and adding a suppressor. Curious of any potential effects on operation and reliability.
Thanks
Thanks
PC Carbine SBR ?
- Thread starter Deerhunter75
- Start date
Best I can do is my PC9 with a folding stock.
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
SBR - ??? Oh, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-barreled_rifle
Wilson SBR http://wilsoncombat.com/new/rifle-sbr-tactical.asp#.V1b1Hb2yBzI
Wilson SBR http://wilsoncombat.com/new/rifle-sbr-tactical.asp#.V1b1Hb2yBzI
OP
Yep. Thinking of cutting down the barrel to just in front of the stock and adding a suppressor. Might make a very handy home defense gun that is quiet to shoot indoors.
coach
Hunter
Sounds like an interesting idea. I assume all federal regs would be followed. What would it cost just to cut off the barrel?
mrmike7189
Single-Sixer
I thought the federal regs called for a 16 inch barrel? if so then the PC carbines already have that and you can't cut it shorter?
The National Firearms Act of 1934 allows for the ownership of short barreled rifles and shotguns, full auto, silencers and other weapons. The act imposes a build/transfer tax on each item along with some paperwork which must be approved before building or transferring an item on the list.
This little Ruger 10/22 has a 10" barrel, legally.
This little Ruger 10/22 has a 10" barrel, legally.
OP
Exactly. Will become a registered SBR. Being a blowback action, I'm assuming that reliability should not be effected as it might with something gas operated. But would like to hear from someone who's done it. Also wonder if the 9mm or .40 version would be better from a reliability or operational standpoint or no difference.
Nice 10/22!
Nice 10/22!
The problem with the the NFA is that you have to do the work first then apply... so, what happens if you are denied? In this case I guess you have to destroy the rifle? Why I say this is I bought a suppressor from a local dealer a few years back and applied and was denied .... sent them (bafte and FBI) all the information that I could legally own a firearm and they still denied me... and here I sit... out of pocket to the tune of $850.... dealer still has my money... government too.... and why I'm denied .... well thank you George Bush ..... for the patriot act which now allows the feds to not be accountable.... sorry.... did not mean to go political... just that the mention of the NFA got my goat for a moment.....
coach
Hunter
Not that this helps Blume, but if denied you could just buy another barrel if they exist. Are you sure the work needs to be done before applying?
I wonder if the spring might need to be lightened up some since the pressure from the full length barrel would be less if shorter length or at least of a shorter duration.
I wonder if the spring might need to be lightened up some since the pressure from the full length barrel would be less if shorter length or at least of a shorter duration.
It's the opposite, you apply first, once approved you do the work. Doing it the other way violates the law.
If you are building your own silencer, same thing...
Buying something already in the registry (commercial silencer) is different, but if you're denied, the item still belongs to the person selling it, so the dealer should refund your money, since they can now sell it to someone else. The $200 transfer tax may be harder to reclaim.
If you are building your own silencer, same thing...
Buying something already in the registry (commercial silencer) is different, but if you're denied, the item still belongs to the person selling it, so the dealer should refund your money, since they can now sell it to someone else. The $200 transfer tax may be harder to reclaim.
blume357 said:
coach
Hunter
That makes more sense. Just cutting off the barrel would seem to put you in violation whether or not you applied or had shot the weapon.
OP
Yes. Approval for the SBR is needed first. Than the barrel can be shortened and the receiver engraved as a new firearm.
I was wondering about dwell time too with the shorter barrel and effects on reliability. Running it with a suppressor might have an effect too. I imagine there would likely be a way to make it work.
I know it's been done with the Marlin Camp Carbine a bunch of times but have never seen a Ruger PC version.
I was wondering about dwell time too with the shorter barrel and effects on reliability. Running it with a suppressor might have an effect too. I imagine there would likely be a way to make it work.
I know it's been done with the Marlin Camp Carbine a bunch of times but have never seen a Ruger PC version.
mohavesam
Hawkeye
Whoa! Hold up there pardner. It is true that you need the NFA approval and permission slip to possess a SBR. I have a couple really old Winchester 94s that required me to become experienced in this.
But in order to "chop off" your barrel to CREATE said SBR, you're gonna need a Type 10 FFL or hire one to shorten that barrel (or to mount a short barrel).
That type 10 FFL can/must then "sell" the SBR to you, all NFA rules apply. You shouldn't take my word on this - A quick call to your ATFE office will confirm, and you should get any opinion/guidance IN WRITING. Remember the NFA is operated & managed by the IRS, not the AFTE.
Just understand that when they knock on your front door - they've already got your back door covered.
But in order to "chop off" your barrel to CREATE said SBR, you're gonna need a Type 10 FFL or hire one to shorten that barrel (or to mount a short barrel).
That type 10 FFL can/must then "sell" the SBR to you, all NFA rules apply. You shouldn't take my word on this - A quick call to your ATFE office will confirm, and you should get any opinion/guidance IN WRITING. Remember the NFA is operated & managed by the IRS, not the AFTE.
Just understand that when they knock on your front door - they've already got your back door covered.
So then what is a Form 1 for?
I made both of my SBRs myself after filing an on-line Form 1, and receiving my tax stamp... No FFL's needed.
Citizens can also build their own silencer using a Form 1.
Citizens can also build their own rifles without any prior permission.
I made both of my SBRs myself after filing an on-line Form 1, and receiving my tax stamp... No FFL's needed.
Citizens can also build their own silencer using a Form 1.
Citizens can also build their own rifles without any prior permission.
https://www.atf.gov/file/11281/download
Here is the link for the Form 1 that is needed to make your own SBR, Silencer/Muffler, SBS, AOW, DD, basically everything except machine guns.
Blume357; you need to read last/bottom page #6
Here is the link for the Form 1 that is needed to make your own SBR, Silencer/Muffler, SBS, AOW, DD, basically everything except machine guns.
mohavesam said:
Blume357; you need to read last/bottom page #6
blume357 said:
FergusonTO35
Hunter
Back to the OP's question, the Ruger PC is out of production and climbing in value. There is no guarantee the PC will be reliable with a shorter barrel. Why not just sell it and buy a registered AR style 9mm SBR or build one yourself? Palmetto State Armory has everything you need for cheap. Or, get an AR pattern "pistol" and add an "arm brace" which doesn't require a stamp- least not yet.
Decide how long the silencer you want to use is, shorten your barrel that much, pin/weld the suppressor on, no need for SBR stamp. No need to inform the BATFE every time you want to take it out of state.
The added back pressure of the muffler will aid in cycling because loss of barrel.
The added back pressure of the muffler will aid in cycling because loss of barrel.
OP
Thanks for the feedback.
Regarding other options, I am stuck in CT and have to work around the ridiculous gun laws. No new sales of AR style rifles or pistols. Anything I buy like that (more or less) would have to be made pre-1994 ban as they are still allowed for purchase. Makes no sense but that's the current law. Gets a little complicated and costly. I could SBR one of my pre-ban AR lowers and than add a short barrel .300 AAC upper with subsonic ammo and end up with a similar result. Not sure about converting a standard lower to accept 9mm, and would probably just go with the .300 ACC at that point.
Regarding permanently affixing the suppressor to the barrel, it is an option but would probably go the SBR route and have the ability to remove the can. Not worried much about the hassle of crossing state lines on this one.
Regarding other options, I am stuck in CT and have to work around the ridiculous gun laws. No new sales of AR style rifles or pistols. Anything I buy like that (more or less) would have to be made pre-1994 ban as they are still allowed for purchase. Makes no sense but that's the current law. Gets a little complicated and costly. I could SBR one of my pre-ban AR lowers and than add a short barrel .300 AAC upper with subsonic ammo and end up with a similar result. Not sure about converting a standard lower to accept 9mm, and would probably just go with the .300 ACC at that point.
Regarding permanently affixing the suppressor to the barrel, it is an option but would probably go the SBR route and have the ability to remove the can. Not worried much about the hassle of crossing state lines on this one.
I don't own any silencers... just not my thing... so I am confused by the "crossing state lines" comment.
Aren't all NFA items subject to the requirement to notify ATFE if they will be carried out of state, or is that a requirement only for weapons in the registry?
Aren't all NFA items subject to the requirement to notify ATFE if they will be carried out of state, or is that a requirement only for weapons in the registry?
Not sure I understand all of your question, all legal NFA items are registered.9x19 said:
Here is a link to ATF about travel with silencers and NFA items. The form needed is a 5320.20
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-registered-owner-destructive-device-machine-gun-short-barreled-shotgun-or-short
