P345 questions

[ArmedinAZ]

I got to briefly handle and shoot a LNIB P345 this weekend and have a couple of questions for P345 owners.

1. It seemed with the mag out the hammer would not hold cock. Is this the case?

2. Applying the safety decocks it every time so no cocked & locked?

3. Had 2 failures with factory FMJ. One was last round in mag failed to feed. Other one was really odd, the owner's dad was shooting, pulled the trigger, hammer fell, no bang. I cleared the round for him and there was no mark at all on the primer. Oh yeah, the fail to feed was in the same mag.

Any ideas about the no strike? (no way is this owner able to detail strip, clean, lube the slide if that's what's needed)

 

[Ski]

1. Not exactly sure what you mean here ... but, on mine, hammer stays cocked with the mag in or out.

2. That is correct, no cocked and locked.

3.???? How many rounds were fired for these 2 failures??

 

[ArmedinAZ]

1. Not exactly sure what you mean here ... but, on mine, hammer stays cocked with the mag in or out.

2. That is correct, no cocked and locked.

3.???? How many rounds were fired for these 2 failures??

1. Hammer will not stay cocked with mag out.

2. got it

3. Possibly 40 rounds fired total for the pistol.

Also noticed that it has very light in-battery spring pressure. Normal?

 

[slippingaway]

If you're right about 1 and 3, I'd say there's something wrong with the gun. #3 would make me double and triple check the mag disconnect, dry firing without a mag in place is known to cause a "click, no-bang" situation. Since there was a failure to feed as well, I'd also take a good hard look at the mag, but it could just be a set of coincidences.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think any double action pistol allows cocked and locked, but there really isn't much reason for it anyway.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

This isn't a DAO or DC pistol if there is such a model in P345, just a regular DA/SA safety model. My CZ75b is DA/SA and will go cocked & locked so not sure about 89grand's comment.

I didn't try a DA trigger pull with the mag out, only tried to cock the hammer. The FTF last round could have been the shooter, he has revolver time but little semiauto experience. I'm more curious about why a trigger pull on a mid-mag cartridge that's properly in battery doesn't make a mark on the primer. I cleared the cartridge into my hand so I know that's the case. The shooter was left handed and I thought he might have bumped the safety on with the previous shot and decocked it but it was still off.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't realize the CZ had that ability, but it is extremely rare for a double action to have a cocked and locked feature. Most double action pistols either just have a safety, just a decocker, or a combo of the two.

In fact, the CZ may be the only DA pistol that has that feature.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I didn't realize the CZ had that ability, but it is extremely rare for a double action to have a cocked and locked feature. Most double action pistols either just have a safety, just a decocker, or a combo of the two.

In fact, the CZ may be the only DA pistol that has that feature.

Except for H&K, Beretta, ...

-- Sam

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the more I looked into, I found a few more. It's not quite as rare as I thought. Not common particularly, but not as rare as I first thought.

 

[buckshotshorty]

The FN9 USG is DA/SA and can be carried Cocked and Locked. The safety lever has 3 positions.


pb

 

[BuckJM53]

I got to briefly handle and shoot a LNIB P345 this weekend and have a couple of questions for P345 owners.

1. It seemed with the mag out the hammer would not hold cock. Is this the case? If the safety is on, the P345 will not stay cocked whether the magazine is in or out

2. Applying the safety decocks it every time so no cocked & locked? You are correct that it cannot be carried condition one

3. Had 2 failures with factory FMJ. One was last round in mag failed to feed. Could be caused by alot of different issues including dirty gun, warn mag, weak recoil spring, etc.

Other one was really odd, the owner's dad was shooting, pulled the trigger, hammer fell, no bang. I cleared the round for him and there was no mark at all on the primer. The likely culprit here is the "Click no bang Syndrome which has two possible causes. Coffee Pot discribed it as follows ... "There are two possible causes of the 'Click, no bang syndrome' in the P345 other than the gun being excessively dirty. One is that the gun has been dry fired without a magazine thus raising a burr on the magazine disconnect firing pin stop which prevents the firing pin from going forward and the other is that the peg on the bottom of the sear slips from the trigger bar prematurely disconnecting the blocker lever which, in turn, drops the primary firing pin block into it's blocking position before the hammer strikes the firing pin. The most common is the first. The second originally appeared in the P97, was corrected and now can only occur with out-of-tolerance parts."

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Buck, thanks for that info. In response:

New gun, reported roughly 40 rounds fired total since brand new. Certainly didn't look dirty inside, not sure how a mag could be worn out, the recoil spring felt light to me, certainly compared to an SR9, similar or slightly lighter than pulling my G19 out of battery.

So the C-N-B problem is possible on a new gun that may (I just don't know) have been dry fired without the mag? Should I tell the owner he has to send the gun in to Ruger?

 

[BuckJM53]

Buck, thanks for that info. In response:

New gun, reported roughly 40 rounds fired total since brand new. Certainly didn't look dirty inside, not sure how a mag could be worn out, the recoil spring felt light to me, certainly compared to an SR9, similar or slightly lighter than pulling my G19 out of battery.

So the C-N-B problem is possible on a new gun that may (I just don't know) have been dry fired without the mag? Should I tell the owner he has to send the gun in to Ruger?

Sorry Armed ... I missed your earlier comment to ski about the gun being new . From that standpoint, I would suggest the following:
1. Give it a bit more break-in time. In the first 50 rounds with my P345 it had two fail to feeds for no apparent reason. It has been perfect since (more than 2,700+ rounds).
2. Is it possible that the CNB happend with the gun not being 100% in battery? Unless the owner did some dry fire without the mag in place, It would seem odd for it to have been caused by the typical CNB scenario since the gun is new. Again ... I would give it a good cleaning and a few more rounds to break-in before I sent it back to Ruger.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Thanks, I'll pass your advice along.

Have to report that his buddy showed up with a NIB Beretta 92 and after shooting it he was doubting his decision to buy the P345. Apples and oranges.. :roll:

 

[revhigh]

Is it possible that the CNB happend with the gun not being 100% in battery?

THe hammer should NEVER fall with the gun not in battery. If that's the case ... that gun needs to go back to Ruger immediately.

REV

 

[revhigh]

Yeah, the more I looked into, I found a few more. It's not quite as rare as I thought. Not common particularly, but not as rare as I first thought.

You're confusing DAO, decockers, and SA/DA.

Most SA/DA non-decockers have the ability to be carried in Condition One, also called 'cocked and locked'.

REV

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the more I looked into, I found a few more. It's not quite as rare as I thought. Not common particularly, but not as rare as I first thought.

You're confusing DAO, decockers, and SA/DA.

Most SA/DA non-decockers have the ability to be carried in Condition One, also called 'cocked and locked'.

REV

No, I'm not confusing the differences.

Most SA/DA's have decockers so they can't be cocked and locked.

There are more options than I first realized for cocked and locked SA/DA auto's but it still seems most do not allow for it. No Rugers or Sigs do, most CZ's/clones don't, but some do, Most Beretta's don't, but a few do, It seems the H&K USP does. So yeah, there are guns out there that do, but I still think most don't.

 

[revhigh]

Most SA/DA's have decockers so they can't be cocked and locked.

I would say the above statement is not true, at least the 'Most' part of it.

REV

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Talking with the P345 owner I've learned that it he shot a box through it between when he bought it and when we shot last weekend so total round count is probably near 100. It had numerous CNB failures in that first box so obviously the original owner must have dry fired it without mag.

Too bad, when we started shooting he couldn't hit a paper plate @ 10 yards. I adjusted his grip and told him to study the front sight and he tightened right up and was pretty happy until he realized his gun is broke. Now instead of being a Ruger guy he can't wait to get rid of it and get a Beretta like his buddy.

This guy wants rid of this gun but not in it's current state. If we bump the sight over can we get the firing pin blocker out and clean it up and make the gun functional again so he can sell or trade it?

 

[Mike J]

Why not just call Ruger and see what they say. They may fix it free of charge. Then if he wants to trade or sell he will know it's right. I would not want to sell a gun that I had knowingly disabled a safety device on.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Why not just call Ruger and see what they say. They may fix it free of charge. Then if he wants to trade or sell he will know it's right. I would not want to sell a gun that I had knowingly disabled a safety device on.

Nobody wants to disable the mag disconnect, just fix the burr or whatever happens to the firing pin blocker so it works "as designed" so he can sell it.

 

[BuckJM53]

Talking with the P345 owner I've learned that it he shot a box through it between when he bought it and when we shot last weekend so total round count is probably near 100. It had numerous CNB failures in that first box so obviously the original owner must have dry fired it without mag.

So it was a used gun after all ... that makes alot more sense :wink:

Why not just call Ruger and see what they say.

Certainly worth a phone call. Because of the previous CNB issue with the P345s, my guess is that they will take care of the issue.

Nobody wants to disable the mag disconnect, just fix the burr or whatever happens to the firing pin blocker so it works "as designed" so he can sell it.

Armed ... sounds like the perfect project gun for you :lol: ... make him an offer he can't refuse (get a great Ruger at a fair price) :wink:

 

[Mike J]

Maybe this will help. http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... disconnect

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Maybe this will help. http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... disconnect

Exactly. Thank you veddy much.

Armed ... sounds like the perfect project gun for you ... make him an offer he can't refuse (get a great Ruger at a fair price)

Yeah, well, he gave $400 for it, it's a $300 used gun. It's a $200 busted gun. Son of a friend..rather help him fix it and let it go.