Old Army now has the same paperwork as other guns,,,

[ClemBert]

As said earlier, it's amazing it has taken this long for this to surface.

This discussion isn't new. It's been discussed ad nauseum ever since conversion cylinders became widely available. Perhaps it is just now surfacing on the RugerForum. Also, I should note that this "issue" isn't specific to the ROA revolver. Pretty much any cap-n-ball revolver with a conversion cylinder belongs in the same discussion.

There's no reason not to load up on conversion cylinders now. They are very widely available from two major competitive manufacturers.

 

[ClemBert]

"The Old Army - that's a revolver I really like, the
finest percussion revolver ever made, and we'll never
discontinue that revolver — not if I can help it."

William B. Ruger, Sr.
Shooting Times, March 1999


Sturm, Ruger and Company discontinued production of the Ruger Old Army after Bill Ruger, Sr.'s death and after his son Bill Ruger, Jr retired. Manufacturing capacity was reserved for firearms in higher demand or models that were more profitable.

 

[Flash]

Hi Flash... the haulting of Ruger's ROA had nothing to do with any of this. Bill Ruger had proven he could make the best American made 20th century C& B revolver ever made and did so. To his untimely Death his Son & Corr. took over and they canned the ROA out of shear stupidity.
I had one heard the were reviviing the ROA for a nother run... never heard anything mote on it.
The Italians and others manufacture replicas so much cheaper and dipict an more accurate make of 19th Century Revs that they thought it not a competetive/cost effect product item for The Sturm Ruger Co.
what happened to the ROA was "Bill" died... and look at the price of them now ... i also heard that if you call and asked ruger to purchase one they had had some in warehouse stock and a small qty. was available ay that time. Fact or fiction on that I don't know.

I have to ask, who told you all this? The foreign cap and ball guns were plentiful before the Old Army was introduced and Ruger still went against the tide. I doubt it was shear stupidity, however that is based solely on perception anyway. Bill's death? Of course. He seemed like the type to fearlessly do battle in court so after his death, the handwriting could have easily been on the wall about BATF's intentions so the OA was going to instantly become a gray area regarding felonies. Not stupidity at all once you think about it.

Flash you'll need to be more specific as to what you want me to address as I typed alot.
Who? I posted where I got my info yesturday at three local gunshops...actually I don't know what you want me to address in your question...
I never said Bill Ruger was stupid ... but it looks like you implied I did.
He never removed the ROA his Son did with the Corp... I'll say that was stupid if you like :O)
I've been shootin'/hunting and an avid outdoorsman since I could carry a gun and in the woods well before that. I'm 56 and a Collector/Shooter of mostly Black Powder type originals and replicas... I am owner and admin of three BP Forums and have visited and chimed in on most all popular forums but this one until now.
I'm knowedgable of the ATF Site and our Gun Control Act with the Rights of the 2nd Amendment ... I know how to google and read and retain info in my mind rather well and have files and notes on what I have learned in over 30 years of BP Guns or so.
So please ask me a specific question and I'll try to answer you as best I can. I can link you to any souces I have available or you can visit my Fourms and ask for yourself would love ta have ya.

Respectfully,
SG

Nice to make your acquaintence Smokey. I was curious about how you came to realize that Bill's son was responsible for axing the OA. Many of Ruger's handguns have been discontinued since he passed but they were great guns so we all can speculate on why they're gone but never really know for sure.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Nice to make your acquaintence Smokey. I was curious about how you came to realize that Bill's son was responsible for axing the OA. Many of Ruger's handguns have been discontinued since he passed but they were great guns so we all can speculate on why they're gone but never really know for sure.

Thank you Flash, but Clembert anwered that Q on the removal of the ROA from Ruger's Production line It was the Corp. not his Son...that info was stored in my mind's eye from many years ago. Well actually it was his Son Bill Jr.'s fault ... he retired :O)

Smokey is a colleage and friend of mine I'm Smokin_Gun, Smokin', or SG is fine by me. Jus' so nobody confuses the two of us. ;O)

Clembert it's good to see you man how are you doin'? Thanks for the back up and bailin' me out ...

I'll Trade you an ROA for that Walker ..45BMG hand cannon ? Or I still have my 1861 Remington Old Army I'd think about tradin' (Nawww I can't trade me Rem :O) I'm still a Remington Man but the Newer 20th Century ROA is in my heart almost as much as the Original ROAs are (Rem Old Army)
Thanks again Clembert

 

[ClemBert]

So that means if you modify a C&B Rev hog out a rear loading port you must keep it with or without the conversion cylinder in it.

Clembert it's good to see you man how are you doin'? Thanks for the back up and bailin' me out ...

I'll Trade you an ROA for that Walker ..45BMG hand cannon ?

Hey Smokin_Gun...you finally found this forum! Welcome.

It would seem that the rules on this are going to vary for a few states versus the rest of the states. Interesting that you would mention cap-n-ball revolvers that have been modified for conversion cylinders and that Walker of mine. That Walker that I had converted to .45 BPM had it's recoil shield ground out to allow for breech loading of cartridges. My understanding it that, even though I modified it, if I ship it with the cap-n-ball cylinder it is still considered a cap-n-ball revolver. No special FFL provisions are required. The modified recoil shield can just as easily be explained as a modification to allow my big fat fingers to more easily install caps on the nipples. Are we in agreement or disagreement over this....perhaps your answer will be specific to California rather than most of the rest of the country?

BTW, I haven't even fired that Walker with a .45 BPM cartridge just yet. Still waiting on ClemBert's shooting range to get baled for hay. Besides, its still upper 80's and near 90 degrees....and that's plus the "wet heat". :wink: I'd hate for that Walker to spit out some flame and set the grass on fire. Less chance for that once it gets baled.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Clembert come on over here and I'll take you out to the Big Mojave Sand Box where nothin' will burn but what the Sun hits on us ... I'll PM you about the rest ok?

 

[Elfego El Gato]

ClemBert, I think you just made the BATFE's point. A bad guy could by a BP revolver without any paperwork, buy a cylinder without any paperwork, and have a fully-functional modern single-aciton revolver on his hands. It seems BATFE is trying to abate the "getting around it" situation you mentioned. Can't really blame them for that...

Of course, this isn't an issue in NJ, where BP firearms are treated the same as all other firearms, anyway.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

I guess I'll jus' say this and back out outta this as i don't really think people are realizing that nothing has changed in the Federal Laws on Antique Fireams (16) not the BATFs view, not Congress, nothin' on the books aboutit ... all one has to do is google , read or call... someone's freakin' out over not.
And buy the way anyone in or near a Major City like L.A. knows badguys don't need Black Powder Guns or go to the trouble of even havin' to buy one. Think about it...and it would not be an ROA plus a Conversion Cylinder.
I can tell ya's for a fact that the Law Inforcement have there hands full presently with a few other things besides us...but I'll bet they are gettin' a kick out of watchin' us go round & round over speculation for at least about 6 years of this topic that I know of.
See ya's later,
SG

 

[lfpiii]

ClemBert, I think you just made the BATFE's point. A bad guy could by a BP revolver without any paperwork, buy a cylinder without any paperwork, and have a fully-functional modern single-aciton revolver on his hands. It seems BATFE is trying to abate the "getting around it" situation you mentioned. Can't really blame them for that...

Of course, this isn't an issue in NJ, where BP firearms are treated the same as all other firearms, anyway.

I hate to tell you all, but unless you walk in to a gunstore with cash and purchase a BP firearm there is documentation. While Cabelas and Bass Pro will ship you a BP they will keep your personal information on file in a BP bound book.

Someone is also keeping track of the cylinders. I purchased a cylinder when they first came out, six months later there was a recall of the pins. The factory got my information from the store.

 

[contender]

Folks,, my BASIC point in all this was to hopefully educate us all in the fact that some FFL holders are very strict in handling their paperwork. They will follow the letter of the law,, and they will not sell a Ruger OA WITHOUT the same paperwork as any other handgun. The FFL holder in Idaho was that way,, and my FFL friend is that way.
DON'T GET MAD AT A FFL DEALER IF THEY MAKE YOU GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS AS A REGULAR HANDGUN.

Oh,, and bag guys NOT using BP handguns to commit crimes,,, WRONG! Here in Lake Lure,, (population around 1500) we had a former police chief who has 2 sons. One of them is doing time currently for murder,, with,,,,,,, you guessed it,, a BP revolver! BECAUSE he KNEW he couldn't buy a regular handgun due to being a felon. (Plus he knew there wouldn't be any paperwork.) He killed a guy over a drug deal. I know police chief's family quite well,, as I grew up around his kids. I'm still friends with all of them. Dad has already passed,, and the good son is a hunting buddy. The daughter is still a good friend. The one in prison,,, well,, we are friendly enough to speak,, but he's not welcome in my home. At least he couldn't afford a Ruger to use in his crime,,!

 

[Ruber]

SG,
Nice to meet you and welcome to the forum, it's good to get another California BP guy around. I practically grew up in the Mojave and worked some up there for a while. I was just up there revisiting some of my field sites along the Mojave River below the Narrows and down into Afton after about ten years. I couldn't believe how big the cities are getting up there.

I'm a Remington fan too, but that ROA sure is fun to shoot! Hope to see you around some more.

Ruber

 

[5of7]

If the reason for keeping handguns out of the hands of felons, is to prevent them from committing crimes, then why would a percussion lock revolver be exempt from the law in the first place?

Once it is loaded and capped, it is every bit as lethal as most other revolvers that they are NOT allowed to own.

I am not saying that I enjoy the paperwork any more than anyone else, but it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me to allow a felon to buy a percussion revolver and NOT allow him to own a revolver that fires fixed ammunition.

 

[FergusonTO35]

The Gun Control Act of 1968 is what requires the 4473 for gun purchases. Under that law, BP firearms are not covered under the definition of firearm.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

SG,
Nice to meet you and welcome to the forum, it's good to get another California BP guy around. I practically grew up in the Mojave and worked some up there for a while. I was just up there revisiting some of my field sites along the Mojave River below the Narrows and down into Afton after about ten years. I couldn't believe how big the cities are getting up there.

I'm a Remington fan too, but that ROA sure is fun to shoot! Hope to see you around some more.

Ruber

Good to meet ya Ruber ... would that be near Victorville that you were visiting?
I like the Open spaces and the Mojave Desrt has plenty of that ...I've been here since 1984 and in CA (L.A.) since 1974. I'm in South Palmdale near the Pearblossum Hwy. 138.
It has shot up from 20,000 people in 1984 to 130,000 now ... Alot of inner city families moved up here to get away from gangland life and mentality...unfortunately ... the kids and gangs came too. I'm a neighborhood watch officer and work closely with others in my neighborhood and the Sheriff's Dept. and Gang Squad/local/Federal unit
So this hood is pretty safe and pleasant it has been cleaned up of any parolees, drug traffic, or robberies, confrontations.
So like you said it's grown here alot and we deal wiith the changes.
If you are ever out here again close enough to stop by let me know.

 

[Ruber]

Last week I was in Victorville and up north of Newberry Springs, but a few weeks earlier I stayed at the holiday inn there at 5th and 138 when I was working up in Elizabeth Lake (usually we camp at the sites). And as much as it has grown up, it's amazing how quickly you can still get away from people. Earlier this year I was in the hills just south of Soledad Cyn packing for 25 miles and two days and didn't see a single person, just bear, fox and deer.

That's great being involved with the neighborhood watch, we've got a pretty good one where I live in San Diego and it makes a difference. :shock:

Well, with the onset of the rains, my next Mojave trip will probably be the Kingstons in the Spring, but let me know if you're making your way down to San Diego, I get down to the South Bay RGC and they get a range dedicated to the muzzleloaders out twice a month or so.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Hell we met here just a few day too late ...would a been cool to run into you. Small world as they say.
I used to Dirt bike from the San Fernando Valley up Little Tujunga Cyn. to Pacoima cyn all the way up to Acton on them trails....it's Beautiful up there and over near Lake Elizabeth...both Lakes.
I thank you for the invite and will keep a watch here just in case you're up this way ... if I'm commin' your way I'll surely let you know.
That Holiday Inn is about 10 min. from my place...

 

[Quarterbore]

I am thinking I need to order a few of these too. At least a 45acp and 45 Colt Cylinder for my Stainless but perhaps some for my blued ROAs too (I have three ROAs - Stainless, Brassy, and Blued).

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46028

EDIT - at $300+ fpr a stainless sylinder - I will just buy 45 Colt Blackhawks!

 

[cagedodger]

Now look what you guys who had to have .45LC conversion cylinders for their ROAs have done! :roll:

Screwed it up for the rest of us. :wink:

Should have left well enough alone and used it as it was intended: load it from the front, cap it in the rear.

Interesting thread. I'm glad I've already got mine. Just hope I don't have to send it in for service.

8) Cage

 

[daveinvegas]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=210870459

This one states "no FFL required"

Another stated "shipped to your door withing two days . . ."


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=210870459

Ruger Stainless Steel Old-Army .44 Cap-n-Ball Revolver. This is the cap-n-ball Ruger that has the adjustable sights. The bore is bright with well defined sharp rifling. The grips are open grain Walnut that are free of any signs of use. The stainless steel exterior of the revolver demonstrates that this was an outdoorsman's black powder revolver, with some light pitting visible. The action is tight and smooth. Positive feedback is always appreciated, if you find that you have a problem with your purchase contact Buffalo Bill's Shooting Store right away and we will act quickly to resolve the matter. Muzzleloading firearms are exempt under BATF guidelines and can be shipped directly to the buyer. Buffalo Bill's Shooting Store, Inc. requires a statement that the buyer is of legal age and that there are no local restrictions in place that would prohibit the receipt of a muzzleloading firearms. Terms and conditions of the payment of items won on auction: Buffalo Bill's Shooting Store ships via UPS Ground, with same day pickup (exception being modern handguns, which the carrier requires, Next-Day shipping) Priority Mail is our recommended means of shipping modern handguns. Cashiers Checks are held for three days. Postal Money Orders allow for same day shipment. If you wish to pay by credit we accept Visa and Master Card with a 3% additional charge. Florida resident will be required to pay sales tax.


Either people don't know about this issue or there is no issue with original, unconverted ROAs.