off the mark

[J. Yuma]

I didn't do well in trigonometry, used to cut class and that sine cosin stuff gave me a headache.
Now that I'm older, and wiser (not to be confused with wise) I understand the usage.

Anyway, I was trying to find a calculator on the net and found this one. https://www.piday.org/calculators/arc-length-calculator/#
I wanted to see how far off the mark I am if my aim is off by 1 degree.
75 foot radius, 1 degree angle = 15.7 inches off the bullseye?
Don't sound right, but I took a screenshot.
Could it be?

 

[NikA]

Sounds exactly right. For small angles, sine is approximately the same as the angle measured in radians, then just multiply by the total distance to get the error. That approximately. gives 15.7 inches as well.

 

[J. Yuma]

well, that helps to explain my shooting " to the left" errors.
I noticed that when my trigger finger is wrapped too far around the trigger that it makes my fist clench enough to move the gun ever so slightly (half a degree?), hence missing left?

Anyway, my old college teammate told me to adjust my trigger finger. I thought he was exaggerating about the effect of finger placement, but maybe he's correct in my case?

 

[rugerguy]

wrapped too far around, you get pull, if too short, you get push........

 

[thinckley]

Trigger pull, more than just about everything else, will make or break accuracy.

 

[J. Yuma]

Trigger pull, more than just about everything else, will make or break accuracy.

Today I made an effort to concentrate on my trigger finger.
Photos are of the first 18 rounds, and then all 48.

Appreciate the feedback I get on this forum

 

[thinckley]

9 "outliers" out of 48 is not bad. If it was me, or me guiding, I would tell you to slow down. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. I have been shooting for 40+ years, and I still have to remind myself to slow down and concentrate on the shot, especially with a new gun. Once you know exactly where the trigger break is, you can anticipate it, focus on the breath, sight picture, and pull that last infinitesimal millimeter when everything aligns.

This is from a range trip last Sunday with a brand new Marlin 1894 SBL in .357 at 25 yards. Before this target I put 3 tubes, so 24 rounds, down range just getting used to how the gun feels. On those 24 shots, once I had it zeroed in on the first 5, everything was about how the gun feels, and nothing about the target or groups.

8 rounds, and I still had one outlier (you could argue that the one on the right is also), only at 25 yards as that is all the range goes to, but those other 7 rounds? I'd say she is ready for prime time.

 

[J. Yuma]

pretty good shooting!

I'm shooting slower, figured that out based on the comments from the forum. I actually put the revolver down between shots.
The trigger problem became evident after last week's session.
Sight picture is a problem still.

"Slow is smooth and smooth is fast" is a great saying. I heard a pretty good football coach use it on his players.
Didn't know it was from the SEALS

"The phrase "Slow is Smooth and Smooth is Fast" is a guiding principle in the United States Navy SEALs, emphasizing the importance of deliberate and meticulous action in high-pressure situations. This mantra is rooted in the SEALs' training and operational ethos, where precision, accuracy, and efficiency are paramount."

 

[thinckley]

I actually put the revolver down between shots.

I wouldn't do that. Besides trigger pull, grip is another "mechanic" that can affect the shot.

I don't even bring the gun down between shots, just slow things down and focus on the sight picture.

Ultimately, every shot needs to be the same, mechanically, which includes grip, sight picture, breathing, and trigger pull. Once you have the mechanics down so everything is the same, every time, speed will come.

 

[gnappi]

Here's my target math.

1. Did I hit it? Nope. shoot again.

2. Did I hit it? Yup, but all over the place.

3. Go back to fundamentals

4. Did I hit it? Nope, adjust the sights

5. Did I hit it? Nope! adjust the trigger nut (the guy behind the sights) i.e. Go back to fundamentals

6. Did I hit it? Yup, right where I want it. then REMEMBER what I did!

Luckily that describes my students more than myself

 

[J. Yuma]

Here's my target math.

1. Did I hit it? Nope. shoot again.

2. Did I hit it? Yup, but all over the place.

3. Go back to fundamentals

4. Did I hit it? Nope, adjust the sights

5. Did I hit it? Nope! adjust the trigger nut (the guy behind the sights) i.e. Go back to fundamentals

6. Did I hit it? Yup, right where I want it. then REMEMBER what I did!

Luckily that describes my students more than myself

"remembering what I did" was the problem!
I wasn't paying attention to was the trigger finger.

Why I was getting so many shots (inexplicably) to the left (or in some sessions to the right)?
I was getting some shots close enough to where I wanted them, but too many would suddenly start hitting way left (and for a while, way right), usually in the middle of a session.
After doing a little trigonometry research, I realized that ever so slight gun movement (1 degree or less) would produce a drastic difference 75 feet down range.

I started looking at my right hand. I noticed that when I pulled the trigger, my right hand was clenching the revolver, moving it. Where the finger was, as mentioned earlier, would move the gun right or left.

I started moving my trigger finger around. In the "right spot," with the "right pull," there was no discernible movement.

The fattest part of my fingertip seems to be correct, and moving the finger at the second joint seems best for a neutral pull.

Anyway, trigger discipline isn't gonna turn me into Annie Oakley, but it's another piece of the puzzle.

 

[needsmostuff]

No cosine for me ,,,,get your own loan!

 

[Johnnu2]

Only the F/R sights should be in focus......... then the trigger squeeze must be gentle until it SURPRISES you when it goes "BANG".
THIS ONE surprised me 15 times... with a 2" bbl revolver. I can barely do multiplication or division....



J.

 

[Bad Barlow]

"remembering what I did" was the problem!
I wasn't paying attention to was the trigger finger.

Why I was getting so many shots (inexplicably) to the left (or in some sessions to the right)?
I was getting some shots close enough to where I wanted them, but too many would suddenly start hitting way left (and for a while, way right), usually in the middle of a session.
After doing a little trigonometry research, I realized that ever so slight gun movement (1 degree or less) would produce a drastic difference 75 feet down range.

I started looking at my right hand. I noticed that when I pulled the trigger, my right hand was clenching the revolver, moving it. Where the finger was, as mentioned earlier, would move the gun right or left.

I started moving my trigger finger around. In the "right spot," with the "right pull," there was no discernible movement.

The fattest part of my fingertip seems to be correct, and moving the finger at the second joint seems best for a neutral pull.

Anyway, trigger discipline isn't gonna turn me into Annie Oakley, but it's another piece of the puzzle.

I spend a lot of time and/or money on "trigger jobs"on target guns.
Moving past geometry to physics,the less energy put into firing pin release,the less upset to the gun.
I'm a total trigger snob,it's worth it to me.

 

[J. Yuma]

Only the F/R sights should be in focus......... then the trigger squeeze must be gentle until it SURPRISES you when it goes "BANG".
THIS ONE surprised me 15 times... with a 2" bbl revolver. I can barely do multiplication or division....



J.

ya got 'em

 

[KIR]

Strict rule of mine...never CO-SIGN for anyone! I also never loan money out to anyone. If they really need it, I just give it to them. That way, I will never lose a friend. If they pay it back, so be it!

 

[J. Yuma]

good idea.

anyway, I went and took my heritage .22 with fixed sights to the range. The idea was to shoot a bunch of shots and play around with trigger control, trying to incorporate what THINCKLEY suggested.
Shot 100 rounds at 75 feet.
The black part of the target is about 8 inches across.
At first I was spraying them all over, mostly too high.
It got better, but what really improved was the feeling of "squeeeeezing" the trigger, really for the first time. Thanks Johnnu2.
Still tend to shoot left.

 

[RC44Mag]

Only the F/R sights should be in focus......... then the trigger squeeze must be gentle until it SURPRISES you when it goes "BANG".
THIS ONE surprised me 15 times... with a 2" bbl revolver. I can barely do multiplication or division....



J.

Very nice. Was that done SA or DA?

 

[Johnnu2]

Very nice. Was that done SA or DA?

That was SA....
Even though we were supposed to use factory ammo only, I used my hand loads that I slipped into a box of factory loads; it didn't matter since I had already turned in my full carry license two weeks before the training session. If you went for the training, you now know that a full carry in NY is sorta useless. The class clearly spells out that NYS is a "MUST RETREAT" state (even in your own home). A premise only permit is 5 years vs. 3 year recertification for a carry license. I never carried in all the decades I had a NY full carry.
I was proud of myself though....

J.

 

[J. Yuma]

Only the F/R sights should be in focus......... then the trigger squeeze must be gentle until it SURPRISES you when it goes "BANG".
THIS ONE surprised me 15 times... with a 2" bbl revolver. I can barely do multiplication or division....



J.

I've been concentrating on the sights, not the target.