odd ball problem with Scout Rifle & ammo

[m657]

been striving to load up some 308 practice fodder, yet having ongoing issues with many rounds NOT somehow allowing the bolt to lock down into closed firing position.

I've been all over my local 'smiths/reloaders/various 'spurts & precision 308 shooters....

Have done full check on the newish Dillon 308 dies & mounting depths.
Have done full check on shoulder angles/etc.
All reloaded cases fit Forster FL case gauge.
Local old time 'smith performed the 'shoulder angle die marker test' for rubbing....'normal'.

Have tried both old used mixed brass AND new unfired Winchester brass.

Unpredictable and intermittent fail to chamber 'reloads'.

Further oddity: some cases that didn't fit a few days ago, mysteriously now DO fit, having just laid around. A round I marked as 'NO fit' 2 days ago, yesterday at a LGS DID fit.

Visual inspect of chamber/bolt doesn't reveal anything obvious.

Last straw yesterday: brand new factory Win 308 150 loads, 2 of 3 rounds fresh out of the box would NOT lock into firing position.

Called Ruger, they want to see it. Great. Here's shipping bill (while "new to me" and NIB it's 'over a year old' & long wait.)

Only have about 30 rounds downrange. It was plenty accurate.....IF the ammo fits....

 

[m657]

update on above FACTORY 308 150gr Winchester ammo

The 2 rounds yesterday that choked up, I marked with a black sharpie.

Checking out 2 whole new 20 boxes today plus 10 rounds of reloads..... they ALL fit perfect, closed tight & ejected properly.

How does a round (new) fit the same chamber/rifle that 24 hours ago it wouldn't???

 

[SteelShooter]

Have your local gunsmith check it with a 308 go/no go gauge.

Also may be you have a problem with overall loaded length. You may be pushing the bullet back into the cartridge, allowing it to chamber the 2nd time.

Another possibility is a sort chamber in the neck area, gun smith could do a chamber cast. If the OAL length is short, if brass is at upper limit, it could jam against the front of the chamber. With crimped bullets, the chamber could be reforming the brass enough to allow it to chamber a second time.

I'd contact Ruger again, ask to talk to customer service manager, and ask for a call tag on their nickel.

 

[m657]

thanks for the ideas SS.....

we did a 'shoulder contact' test with no issues;
the OAL of some loads are 2.775, some 2.8 and some with the 150gr round nose shorter at spec length of IIRC 2.600.

Also both new unfired and previously fired brass both pre and post full length sized, will have conflicting random ability to chamber, empty of any bullet. Unless I misunderstand the process, which at this point it's hard to tell.....

I would think a 'new factory brass' that has been FL sized should chamber, yes?

Even compared some rounds loaded by a precision loader buddy of mine who is meticulous in his process.

Out of a box he loaded for a different rifle, of 50 once fired cases trimmed & loaded with 168 spire points at OAL 2.775, they all fit perfectly....except FIVE!!!!

I marked them with a sharpie & will recheck tomorrow. Will seek out a go-no go gauge too.

Thanks again.

 

[mike7mm08]

Have you looked at the extractor? Could be that it is for some reason not snapping over the case rim or able to freely move in the extractor groove as you try to the close the bolt. Place the same cartridge or case in slightly different so the extractor is riding a different area of the groove and it may work. Rim thickness and groove dimensions can vary . If the extractor is not fitted properly or has bare minimum clearance between the bolt face and case you could also have an issue with occasional cases that have a slightly thicker rim.

You can dissemble the bolt and clean everything real well. Remove the extractor from the bolt and see if the bolt closes easily on rounds or cases you drop in the chamber by hand. If it does the extractor might need a bit of careful filing to allow a little more play to account for case variations. Not a job to rush as a extractor that fits the cases too loose can cause all kinds of problems as well.

I would just call Ruger and ask for a return tag. I had a Mark II all weather in 350 mag. Sat in the safe for about five years before I really started working with it. Would not fed worth a darn. Called Ruger got a label. Gun has fixed in less than a week. No charge for shipping back no charge for the repair. It is now the slickest feeding rifle I own.

 

[dfletcher]

I'm leaning towards extractor also. Has the rim and base area of a "no go" cartridge been closely checked? Can the extractor be removed and a "no go" case fed to determine if it's the issue?

 

[m657]

New information:

running a pack of errands today, took GSR by the range (really....it was CONVENIENTLY along the route I had to go)....with 30 rounds of previously function-fit ammo...

some new rounds, and some rounds from 3 different reloaders & 3 different reloading presses....

Pleased to report they all STILL fit and bolt-closed properly. Hit the 200 yard gong most of those 30 rounds.

Plan tomorrow to use these now-fire formed cases to see what kind of grief ensues.

Will be connecting with the go-no go case guy soon.

Don't know if this is meaningful:
after extracting fired case (all normally) I reinserted 2 empty cases into chamber to see if they would lock into place. They wouldn't. Will do some more fiddling in the morning.

 

[mike7mm08]

Again thinking extractor. If things were not exactly the same with how the fired cases were inserted the extractor is going to engage differently.

 

[m657]

I talked again with Ruger factory. They too think perhaps an extractor issue may be involved.

Had loaded 1/2 dozen precisely dimensioned loads. trying the case in the chamber at all steps.

Inconsistent feedback this way. Final straw was when 2 that HAD chambered/locked perfectly, 20 minutes later wouldn't do it a second time. Nor would a few that fit well a couple days ago.

I'm satisfied the issue needs the factory...which by coincidence has now decided it would be paying shipping both ways.

Thanks again for the ideas on this, I'm really not a long gun guy.

And mostly my long gun choices are either the 1873 toggle bolt models or a proper single shot.

 

[Buckeye Bill]

m657,

What was the outcome with that Scout Rifle that you sent back to Ruger?

Bill

 

[m657]

sorry, just saw this.

All is well in GSR land.

Had issue with only 1 case out of several hundred since return, so I tossed it.

They also replaced the stock for some reason I wasn't expecting.

Took about 10 rounds to get back in the x-ring.

Highly pleased Scout owner now.

 

[Buckeye Bill]

It is great to hear that you got your rifle back and it is functioning correctly.

You got a new stock out of the deal.

No explanation was offered as to the cause of the problem or what was done to correct it?

Bill

 

[m657]

They listed 'polishing the chamber' and 'replacing the extractor', along with advise on how much torque for the stock bolts.

I managed to get some great 25 yard groups and hit the 200 yd gong nearly 100A% of the time. Now have some loaded up & will be going out to the range for some paper targets at distance. After the home-garden chores that is.....

 

[mr surveyor]

They listed 'polishing the chamber' and 'replacing the extractor', along with advise on how much torque for the stock bolts.

I managed to get some great 25 yard groups and hit the 200 yd gong nearly 100A% of the time. Now have some loaded up & will be going out to the range for some paper targets at distance. After the home-garden chores that is.....

just curious .... what were their recommended torque settings for the action screws?

 

[m657]

don't have the slip handy right now....IIRC the same numbers were in the owner manual, or else I saw them on line somewhere.

What's especially pleasing as well as what the Ruger factory did for repair, is that it seems so far, based on limited outings, the EER handgun scope Burris 2-7X32 mounted forward (looks like twin to their "Scout" model) is performing quite nicely for the package.

Having trouble getting away from gardening chores & fighting the various feral Black Berry Bushes etc this spring. Pistol matches are upon us as well. At least I've got some trial 308 loads ready.