New Winchester Brass

[gramps]

I decided to load up some .44 spcls the other day and could only come up with 9 cases. Now where did I put the rest of them? Oh well off to the LGS and I bought 100 bright shiny Winchester cases. Started priming with CCI 300's. I now have 50 primed, but 7 that I couldn't get to fit into the shell holder, or I could get them in but had to be pried out with a screw driver, which buggers up the base. Is this normal? This is the first time I have used new brass.
gramps

 

[Rick Courtright]

7 that I couldn't get to fit into the shell holder, or I could get them in but had to be pried out with a screw driver, which buggers up the base. Is this normal? This is the first time I have used new brass.

Hi, gramps

In "normal" times, I'd tell you "Not no, but h(eck) no!" I've had good luck w/ any new brass I've bought and most of the "regular" mfrs have been represented.

However... w/ all the pressure to try to keep up w/ the market demand, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the mfrs have let QC slip a little in an effort to catch up. Dunno if you'll get any satisfaction, but I think I'd take 'em back to the LGS and ask 'em if there's anything you can do at their level. If not, a note to Winchester's in order... at least you can say you tried!

Good luck getting this squared away!

Rick C

 

[gramps]

I may take only the "bad ones", and send them to
Winchester.
gramps

 

[6gun]

Wow that's not normal at all I have always had real good luck with Winchester brass, never anything like that with any new brass or once fired, think I'd take the bad cases over to the LGS where they were purchased and ask them to replace it.

 

[gmartinnc]

For what it's worth, I had a box of new 7mm Mag Winchester brass that I bought back in the late 70's that I had never used. When I finally got around to using it, not one piece of it would go in my shell holder. I chucked each one lightly in my drill press and with it spinning, using a Dremel tool, I took a small amount of material off each case at the place where it was a little fat, and all was well.

 

[gramps]

I have a dremel, but not the press. I'll figure out something. Thanks!
gramps

 

[mr surveyor]

you wouldn't happen to be using Lee shell holders would you?

I've run across quite a few pieces of brass in both Win and Rem that were given to me by a reloading buddy that would be difficult to get into and out of my Lee shell holders (both .357 and .44 shell holders). My buddy said he didn't experience any such issues with that same brass that he could recall.

Could be your shell holder?

 

[gmartinnc]

I was using a RCBS shellholder on the 7 mag.

 

[gramps]

It is a Lee, but this happens with both the hand primer and the press shell holders.
gramps

 

[Jimbo357mag]

If it's not too bad maybe you could dress them up with a file enough to work. Shellholders vary and so does brass. I sometimes get a burr on a case head from ejection from my rifles that has to be dresses before the brass is a loose fit in the shellholders.

 

[mr surveyor]

It is a Lee, but this happens with both the hand primer and the press shell holders.
gramps

I will say that I don't have quite as much of an issue with my Lee press shell holders, but my hand primer shell holders seem to give me quite a bit of grief. Unfortunately there's no other "brand" replacement for the Lee primer shell holders.

It could be the brass is out of spec, but it could also be that that same brass will squirt problem free right through shell holders from RCBS, Hornady, etc

 

[john guedry]

I have had this with my Lee shellholders on the hand priming tool.Both .44and .45

 

[6gun]

It is a Lee, but this happens with both the hand primer and the press shell holders.
gramps

I was going to ask you what shell holder you use, yep Lee shell holder there's your whole problem, probably have no problem with a Lyman or RCBS.

 

[Paul B]

Write a nice letter to Winchester explining your problem. I recently bought 4 bags of nickle plated .280 Rem. brass and every bag was missing one of two cases. I got a reply aabout two weeks later apologizing for my difficulty and two $5.00 coupons toward any Winchester ammo or componenets. All it cost me was a forever stamp and the time to write the letter.
Paul B.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I was going to ask you what shell holder you use, yep Lee shell holder there's your whole problem, probably have no problem with a Lyman or RCBS.

HI, 6gun

Have things changed w/ Lee? If the problem was "looseness" I'd tend to agree w/ you, but my experience w/ Lee shellholders vs other brands is the Lees have been a tad bit "more generously" sized. Being too tight just seems odd to me w/ the brand.

Still, another shellholder could be worth trying if there's no easy to fix physical problem like the burrs already mentioned, though that won't fix the priming tool situation. Brass doesn't get treated nearly as nicely in production as we tend to care for it once it gets home, ya know?

Rick C

 

[6gun]

I was going to ask you what shell holder you use, yep Lee shell holder there's your whole problem, probably have no problem with a Lyman or RCBS.

HI, 6gun

Have things changed w/ Lee? If the problem was "looseness" I'd tend to agree w/ you, but my experience w/ Lee shellholders vs other brands is the Lees have been a tad bit "more generously" sized. Being too tight just seems odd to me w/ the brand.

Still, another shellholder could be worth trying if there's no easy to fix physical problem like the burrs already mentioned, though that won't fix the priming tool situation. Brass doesn't get treated nearly as nicely in production as we tend to care for it once it gets home, ya know?

Rick C

Well if you read above you will see others have had problems with Lee shell holders being to tight it's not just me.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Well if you read above you will see others have had problems with Lee shell holders being to tight it's not just me.

Hi,

I'm not arguing w/ ya, 6gun, or anyone else, but here's the deal as I see it:

The man bought 100 cases. 7 didn't fit. That's inconsistent, so it screams out "Variable!" in a loud voice. Kinda like holding up a sign that says "Pick me!" He's using the same shellholder. Whether it's a "good" one (in spec, made by one's favorite mfr, etc.) or a "bad" one (out of spec, made by one's unfavorite mfr, etc.), it doesn't need to scream. It simply announces, "I'm a constant. Leave me alone for now."

Yes, people have had problems w/ Lee shell holders. There are also those who've had bad things to say about their shellholders from all the other major mfrs. But that's not the issue. Brand names notwithstanding, the man's gotta find the variable that can be controlled or eliminated.

So if this were happening to me, I'd start w/ a look at the brass. Swapping out the shellholder MAY prove to be a necessity in the end, but it wouldn't be the first action on my list...

Maybe I've just been lucky (though my ability to train the lottery guys to draw the right numbers says otherwise ), but I've solved a lot more problems, a lot more easily, by concentrating on the variables first. It's pretty certain the folks who build the equipment have made tons of money on those who prefer to change the constants first, though. It's a pure case of YMMV.

Rick C

 

[gramps]

According to the Lee site the shell holder tolerances are 0.000 to +0.002, while brass companies tolerances are 0.002 to 0.008. I have a Dremel. Think I could find a 0.50 inch grinding disc? Nooo! Guess I'll end up sending it to Lee.
gramps

 

[6gun]

According to the Lee site the shell holder tolerances are 0.000 to +0.002, while brass companies tolerances are 0.002 to 0.008. I have a Dremel. Think I could find a 0.50 inch grinding disc? Nooo! Guess I'll end up sending it to Lee.
gramps

If your LGS has a Lyman or a RCBS shell holder instock why not try one? then you'll know for sure if it's your lee one or the brass, I know I could take the brass to my LGS and he would open the packages on shell holders and let me try them to get a fit.

 

[6gun]

Well if you read above you will see others have had problems with Lee shell holders being to tight it's not just me.

Hi,

I'm not arguing w/ ya, 6gun, or anyone else
Rick C

Then stop it OK?

 

[gramps]

So I got out a cutting wheel and commenced. Figured I couldn't hurt it at this point. I have removed enough mrtal on the shell holder so that the case will pop in. I'll try a little oil, and if it slides in smooth I'll quit. Thanks for all the suggestions and hand holding so to speak. :lol:
gramps

 

[6gun]

So I got out a cutting wheel and commenced. Figured I couldn't hurt it at this point. I have removed enough that it will pop in. I'll try a little oil, and if it slides in smooth I'll quit. Thanks for all the suggestions and hand holding so to speak.
gramps

You cold also take the brass and a piece of fine sand paper bend the paper in kind of a U shape and twist the brass in it to remove a little off it also if you know what I mean? I like the way you don't give up and know that brass is going in that shell holder one way or an other before your done, thats what I like to see.

 

[gramps]

I put some " HiTech" oil on the shell holder, and the brass slips in slicker than snot! Yay. So now I can finish up reloading the brass. I am mechanically challenged so any little endeavor I accomplish is a big deal for me. I can measure something with a tape measure 6 times and after cutting, it won 't fit. So I usually let professionals do it once! :mrgreen:
gramps

 

[6gun]

Good for you Gramps!!! :mrgreen: just be careful not to get any oil on the primer now or it may not go boom when you want to fire it.

 

[gramps]

Good for you Gramps!!! :mrgreen: just be careful not to get any oil on the primer now or it may not go boom when you want to fire it.

Roger that!
gramps

 

[gramps]

I went out and shot up 28 of the reloads. Two different lead cast bullets, both 240 gr lswc, both stated 0.430. One from Hornady that had a moly lube on it, plus it looked like a tumble lube so I had put JPW (Johnson's Paste Wax) on 9 of them (last year for my .44 mags). The other one was harder and possibly a thousands larger (tighter fit in the case) with blue lube of some kind in the driving bands (gun show find last year). The ones I shot started with 14.0 grs 2400 (cci 300 primer)and the JPW lubed bullets to season the bore. Reasonably accurate mild recoil. Then stepped up to 14.2 grs with the blue lube without seeing a real change in point of impact although I noticed that the blue lubed bullets were longer. Oh yeah I changed the settings to just below the top of the last driving band. Recoil very manageable even under rapid fire DA. Then shot some with 14.5 grs.. No change in anything. I was firing at 10 yds. Birchwood Casey target. 5/28 were in the 10 ring with 3 in the orange, 4/28 in 9 ring, 16/28 in 7 & 8 rings only 3/28 in the 6 ring. I am very comfortable with the gun (Charter Arms Bulldog .44 spcl) and the reloads. More, More. I still need to shoot the 15.0 grainers. Ahh tomorrow. Maybe I'll also get out the SBH's for some exercise. The gun cleaned up easily with a small amt of leading found. I tend to shoot fairly quick. 5 shots in 10 seconds. The gun did get hot, but allowed to cool with cylinder open as I walked down and back to see the target, and knock down more weeds!
gramps 8)

 

[Precision32]

I didn't see it mentioned, but were the questionable cases measured?

 

[gramps]

Yes, 0.507 to 0.510 in diameter. I couldn't get an accurate inside measurement of the shell holder.
gramps

 

[Rick Courtright]

According to the Lee site the shell holder tolerances are 0.000 to +0.002, while brass companies tolerances are 0.002 to 0.008.

Hi,

Just cleaning up the numbers a touch:

"We make our Shell Holders -.000/+.002. Case manufacturers make the cases +.000/-.008."

http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/435/46/tight-or-undersized-shell-holders

While they DO talk about taking a grinder to a suspect shellholder, the tolerance stack-up in those numbers makes it seem like a seldom needed procedure if my old boss' admonition holds any water:

"Didja measure it first?"

Yeah...

"Ok, now, didja measure it right?"

Hmmm...

Rick C

 

[gramps]

All I know was the shells wouldn't go before the grinding, and now after the grinding it works like a charm As stated earlier my measuring is suspect!
gramps