New to me P89. Pic added.

[revhigh]

PS. I'm one of the supporters of the new American pistol. I've seen one outshoot a P95 by a long shot... A lot of manufacturers are coming out with some great guns this year.

Agreed DA, but it's hard to pry that CZ75 from my paws now that I have experienced it.

I'm not surprised the new RAP can outshoot a 95, they were never known for accuracy, but are one of the few autos Ruger ever made with no skeletons in its closet. When I hear confirmed accuracy reports (from people I trust) that the RAP can shoot on the level of at least a CZ75, is when I'll look at it seriously.

Foolish reports that it can shoot into 1 inch all day long just does it disservice, and makes me even more skeptical.

Saying that P89's match the accuracy of P90's is also equally unbelievable. Wicked accurate ? A P89 ? That's a good one ....

The internet is a wonderful place for unconfirmable tall tales and claims.

It's pretty easy to tell who has shot seriously, and who's just been plinking at empty beer cans and old computer monitors with their Jennings and 'wicked accurate' P89's.

REV

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

Well, I happened across a Sig P250 9mm. CHEAP, the other day. Quick impulse buy. Still need to get my hands on a P320 and Ruger American Pistol. Gotta have a "cheap gun shoot-off" lol.

Everything I've read indicates that the RAP can hold its own consistently against the Sig P320 and Walther PPQ. The only complaint was the grip-knuckle issue.

I also recognise the need for Ruger to have a good solid center fire semi auto platform. Something that IS designed to compete with the Sig P226 and Cz 75 class guns. There are those of us who wouldn't mind paying for the difference. I mean Hell, we enjoy this kind of quality from their REVOLVERS. Or their rifles for that matter. Ruger builds rifles that easily beat out other brands, Ruger rifles are proven over time, still on the market, and certainly not "flavor of the month." WHY can't their semi autos provide us with the same experience? Why do they refuse us and deny us this?

You can't tell me the Ruger P-series (with the exception of the P90 maybe) was designed to do that. If they WERE, they would still be in current production, like a Beretta 92, or Cz 75, or Sig P226, or God forbid, a 1911 even. The results speak for themselves. Look at what's still on the market today. Then look at what's just "flavor of the month."

BTW...none of these guns mentioned are top shelf guns. They can however ALL be found in the 400-600 range.

 

[cyborgt800]

Nah Al, not a troll ... It takes a better shooter to appreciate a better gun. I can understand why you're completely satisfied with Rugers' accuracy ....

I'm surprised you don't have a whole Arsenal full of those fine Jennings and Jimenez autos ... Hell .... You can probably get 20 or 30 ... Maybe 40 of them for the $2K or so the previous poster spent on all those Rugers.

Everybody here knows you'd never know the difference .....

REV

Bout sums it up. Otherwise he would have some videos up already.

If you're alluding to me, well I do not know how to upload pics or videos here. I have a few pics available and if you're questioning my integrity as to what I've said, just say it to me ...not everyone else.

Next time I go to the range I'll take some vids...

 

[revhigh]

I think the CZ's are high middle shelf, but I put the 226 at top shelf for non-1911 9mm's. I can't think of anything better that I've been exposed to that's not custom that can give a 226 a run for the money, can you ? I guess some of the FN's and HK's might, but you don't see many of them around, and I rarely see them at my clubs.

I agree about the prices though. $400 for my 226 used but like new, and $300 for my CZ75B.

Ruger could build a SA that could compete with CZ and Sig if they wanted to. They've just gotten themselves pigeon holed into the $200-400 cheap plastic range, because that's where the money is with most new shooters, and the profit is there for the stockholders. Can't blame them for that ... But they don't appeal to me at all. I'd pay $600 for a Ruger SA that shot, performed, was machined as well as, and had the reliability of a CZ or Sig. I'm sure they've done the math and determined the profits aren't as good in that arena. It probably ticks them off that they have to keep producing the DA and SA revolvers and MK autos at far less of a profit margin. I wouldn't be surprised if they discontinued the entire revolver line sometime soon.

REV

 

[Al James]

DA if you think Ruger builds long guns and revolvers that easily beat the competition you are lost. M77's get outshot by even the cheapest of Savages. Their revolvers are overbuilt but they are still investment cast, with poor triggers and lack luster accuracy. WHEN compared to others. You see they fill that same niche that Ruger specializes in. The sweet spot between cost and function. The same can be said about pretty much everything they make....the mini series, 22 Auto, 10-22, etc.

And that is ok....they are what they are. Just because you do not like the P series or SR line does not mean they are a departure from what Ruger is known for making. Good solid guns that the everyman can afford on a weeks pay. And based on the sales numbers...its a good niche to occupy and always has been. Ruger produced over 2 million P series pistols over the course of 30 or so years. Is that your version of "flavor of the week"? They weren't the best at ANYTHING but were good at everything. They have a cult like following years after being discontinued.

Using your rational no guns that are out of production are worth a darn. That leaves out some really nice pistols. Trends change, market desire changes, labor and materials cost change, etc. The P series was designed to meet the requirements of the military's handgun program. Not an IT guys version of what a service pistol should be. After they selected the M9 WBR decided to offer the design for sale to the public and it was a top seller for many years until the market changed. Big deal. Ruger is not a company that is afraid to make changes. The security six series, MKI/MKII/MKIII, M77/M77MKII/M77Hawkeye etc. Now we have the SP/GP/RH, the American rifles, etc. It is a fluid market and change does not necessarily mean failure. Think about it. :wink:

The annoying part is that you leave the revolver section and come over here to bad mouth Ruger SA pistols along with Rev....constantly. It adds nothing to the discussion. Would it annoy you if I came into the Revolver section and posted how sub par all the Rugers revolvers are? My Smith will do this or my Korth will do that? Or if I wandered into the rifle section to constantly tell you what a turd the Mini, M77 series and the 10/22's are? I'm guessing it would probably get old after the first 100 posts or 5 years which ever came first. I have more experience in this industry than you do and I can see through blind brand loyalty fairly quickly. Working behind a gun counter for more than a few years helps you learn how to spot people like you very quickly. Like Rev....you guys own the best weapons, shoot them the best, and anyone that disagrees with you is an idiot. At one time I had almost 200 personal guns, reloaded for over 40 calibers, shot in High power, IDPA, 3-gun, and as Rev pointed out I was also a professional beer can and computer monitor slayer. To say that I need to learn how to shoot is comical. I've taught probably 100 people how to shoot pistols, rifles and shotguns. You need to realize that just because someone likes a different design than you does not mean they are novices. Different strokes for different folks don't cha know.

Ruger revolvers trip your trigger and thats great. Rev has posted how great he feels the Mini design is and again it is not the best at anything yet still has its followers. It was a great $400 rifle but it is currently a poor $800 rifle. Just my .02....and BTW I have zero desire to go into the rifle section of this site and tell everyone to just buy an AR [not from Ruger BTW] that will do every better. Or post something like Rev's "Why can't Ruger build..." thread from a few weeks ago that ticked everyone off.

Ruger is building what the people want. They destroy all of the brands that you come here to tout when it comes to what matters.....sales. And lets see....you have an FFL right? Do you sell Sigs through your FFL? That's where I "got" that.

 

[revhigh]

FWIW ... I said I HAD a mini ... Never touted them once. Pretty poor in accuracy actually. My AR's blow the mini away.

With all that supposed experience, Al ... I'd think you'd be a lot more up on higher quality guns and their accuracy capabilities than your postings have ever indicated ... Unless ... Which is probably the case ... That YOU simply can't appreciate the increased accuracy of better quality firearms. That's fine. I wouldn't buy or keep higher level guns that I couldn't utilize to their full potential either. So in that we agree.

Regarding what sections people post in ... I couldn't care less what guns or types of guns people say they like or don't like. Means nothing to me. If you want to post in revolvers ... Go ahead. If you want to post in semi autos .... Be my guest. Anybody that gets their panties all wadded up or 'annoyed' over a post on an Internet forum needs psychiatric help.


REV

 

[Al James]

You seem to forget what you write sometimes. Make sure to wash the lead off your hands it can help with your memory loss. I own and appreciate finer pistols than anything Ruger has ever made. But I come here to discuss Ruger pistols with other Ruger owners. Not to tell them what they should have bought instead.

If you look up at the top of the this page it says RugerForum.com and we are currently in the Ruger Semiauto Pistols section. Excuse me if I'm out of place by wanting to talk about the virtues of Ruger pistols here and don't have time for much else.

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

I never bad mouthed the Ruger semi-autos. Or questioned your integrity. I said I had accuracy problems with a few Rugers. The ones I've shot can't hold a candle to some of the other guns I've shot in the same price range. Saying they do, is a disservice to those less informed.

 

[revhigh]

You seem to forget what you write sometimes. Make sure to wash the lead off your hands it can help with your memory loss. I own and appreciate finer pistols than anything Ruger has ever made. But I come here to discuss Ruger pistols with other Ruger owners. Not to tell them what they should have bought instead.

If you look up at the top of the this page it says RugerForum.com and we are currently in the Ruger Semiauto Pistols section. Excuse me if I'm out of place by wanting to talk about the virtues of Ruger pistols here and don't have time for much else.

Don't have time for much else ? LOL. That's a good one !

It seems like you have plenty of time to troll after my every single post, both here and in 4 year old forums across the Internet .... Which is really kind of sick when you think about it.

When was the last time you talked about an actual gun and how it shoots both good or bad ?

When was the last time you posted something significant about an actual GUN.... Without whining about trolls and this being a Ruger forum or referencing either REV or DA, or telling people where they should or shouldn't post ?

Ever post a range report on any of your great Rugers ? Not that I recall.

Ever post targets you've shot ? Nope.

Ever post pics of the guns you brag about 'having owned' ? With over 200 that shouldn't be too hard. LOL. Nope.

Ever honestly compare two brands of guns ? Nope ...

About all I've seen and heard from you is you bragging about all the money you make reselling P series guns on gun broker, listing gunbroker links, and how prices are through the roof, yet whenever somebody posts that they've bought one here recently ... It's in the $200-250 range. Oh yeah ... All that ... And of course that Ruger sells MILLIONS of guns ... so therefore they're great and they're super accurate .... And they must be the best .... Etc etc etc.

Not only that .... You may be SELLING P series guns for $400-500 to some fools on gunbroker, but that ALSO means you're BUYING them at exactly the prices I talk about ... $200-250 ... And recent posters say they're buying them at .... To make such big profits. You can't have it BOTH ways .... You say they're worth $400-500 When you SELL them .... But you're BUYING them realistically at $200-250.

Yup ... A whole lot of 'gun talk' coming from you. :roll:


REV

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

DA if you think Ruger builds long guns and revolvers that easily beat the competition you are lost. M77's get outshot by even the cheapest of Savages. Their revolvers are overbuilt but they are still investment cast, with poor triggers and lack luster accuracy. WHEN compared to others. You see they fill that same niche that Ruger specializes in. The sweet spot between cost and function. The same can be said about pretty much everything they make....the mini series, 22 Auto, 10-22, etc.

Never have before, but I'm starting to now... (Question your integrity)

1. I was actually referring to Ruger's new rifle lines, not old M77s and Minis. The number 1s have ALWAYS been good. So I see you pick and choose as you see fit.

Ruger ARs are just as good as Sig's! Yes, I own both. (See videos of my last 3-gun shoot) Same price point too. Their new precision rifle is amazing. Very tempted with one right now.

2. Ruger revolvers have never suffered from accuracy issues! Their triggers are easy enough to clean up. Maybe not as good as a S&W.

"Only investment cast?" Ever heard of "Ruger only loads"?

So your argument is still invalid.

3. Rev is right, I've never seen ANY content (pics, videos, or range reports) posted by you. OTOH, I have... On numerous occasions. Now you say you will start posting? Because you were publicly called out?

So his argument IS valid...

WOA: Lay this to rest before we all start calling you out on other stuff too and holding you accountable to it...

PS: never heard anyone claim issue with the 10/22 or Standard/MK series pistols. Its what Valquartson chooses for their best platforms.

Schooled by the IT guy. lol

 

[cruzerlou]

I have a first gen P-95, and though I've never shot it off the bags to see just how accurate it is, at 25 yards I can çhew up the A zone on an I.D.P.A. cardboard silhouette, quick fast and in a hurry.
As y'all know I just shoot for combat scenarios, so as long as I'm making com hits I'm happy.
Having said that I really like what I've heard about the Ruger American.
I watched Hickok45 nail that red gong that's a good 75/100 yards out repeatedly and he was shooting right fast too.
Now he used to shoot silhouette so there is some skill involved there but you can't take away from that new pistol it seems to be very accurate for what it is more than accurate enough as a combat handgun which is exactly what it is designed to be as I understand it it's going through the military trials right now and could very well be the next standard issue handgun of armed forces that's saying something good about the gun right there.
Lou

 

[revhigh]

DA if you think Ruger builds long guns and revolvers that easily beat the competition you are lost. M77's get outshot by even the cheapest of Savages. Their revolvers are overbuilt but they are still investment cast, with poor triggers and lack luster accuracy. WHEN compared to others. You see they fill that same niche that Ruger specializes in. The sweet spot between cost and function. The same can be said about pretty much everything they make....the mini series, 22 Auto, 10-22, etc.

Never have before, but I'm starting to now... (Question your integrity)

1. I was actually referring to Ruger's new rifle lines, not old M77s and Minis. The number 1s have ALWAYS been good. So I see you pick and choose as you see fit.

Ruger ARs are just as good as Sig's! Yes, I own both. (See videos of my last 3-gun shoot) Same price point too. Their new precision rifle is amazing. Very tempted with one right now.

2. Ruger revolvers have never suffered from accuracy issues! Their triggers are easy enough to clean up. Maybe not as good as a S&W.

"Only investment cast?" Ever heard of "Ruger only loads"?

So your argument is still invalid.

3. Rev is right, I've never seen ANY content (pics, videos, or range reports) posted by you. OTOH, I have... On numerous occasions. Now you say you will start posting? Because you were publicly called out?

So his argument IS valid...

WOA: Lay this to rest before we all start calling you out on other stuff too and holding you accountable to it...

PS: never heard anyone claim issue with the 10/22 or Standard/MK series pistols. Its what Valquartson chooses for their best platforms.

Schooled by the IT guy. lol

LOL DA !

Ironically enough ... He chooses some of Ruger's finest, most trouble free, and Most accurate products to trash .... Yet defends to the death their worst, most trouble prone, and recall plagued products ... Kinda like Obama .... Always makes the wrong decisions .... And choices.

This from the guy who owned 200 guns personally, worked in gun stores, and 'trained' over 100 people .... LOL.

Must have been a good year for Jennings .... SELLING 200 guns in one year.


REV

 

[Al James]

Remember, wash that lead off your hands. I used to post pictures and targets here all the time. But I got tired of the attacks by certain members here. And I'm not alone....I've spoke with several people that left here because they got tired of the "you should have bought this" club haters.

I'm not bragging about anything Rev, I'm just pointing out the obvious price increase backed up by completed Gunbroker auctions. The last 4 or 5 P guns that I have sold all ended with a buy it now price that does not match your pie in the sky pricing. I had about 30 P guns at one time and have probably owned 75 in the last 20 years.....you have had 2. Who do you think has a better grasp on what they sell for? Again not what I think they are worth....what they actually sell for on .01 start auction with no Reserve. Ironically, you quote prices on the guns that you tout from decades ago. Is that relevant? Telling someone to buy a CZ or Sig based on what you paid 10 or 20 years ago for one is like me recommending Costco gas at $0.79 in 1996. I bought a Python for $500 one time....is that relevant considering what they are worth now???

But alas, that is the real world, not opinion based forum land. You were wrong and you can't admit it. That's ok...I expect nothing less from you. Sure some may find a great deal on a used P gun but that is the exception not the rule. I have not seen one locally for less than $400 in years. I understand there is regional pricing differences but the internet levels the market.

DA...Box stock 10-22's are not known for their fantastic accuracy, triggers, finish, anything, etc. They don't even hold the bolt open on empty. A box stock Marlin 60 will outshoot a box stock 10-22. But, what Ruger got right was the way they are made/put together. Its a tweakers dream gun. You can spend a grand or so and make them really shine. Everyone knows that. Question: If they are so great from the factory....why does everyone toss and then replace everything except the receiver when they want to build a nice one? Your VQ analogy is missing quite a bit of logic. That's like saying $400 Armscor 1911's are awesome because BCM and Baer build really nice 1911's for $3500 or so. Apples to oranges. Same platform.....different animal.

I'm not bashing the guns that Ruger makes....just pointing out that they are nothing special and they are priced accordingly. That is Ruger's niche. Good guns at a good price that meet the needs of most people. Myself included. That's why I come here to talk about them. I wouldn't dream of showing up on Sig or Glock forum to tell them how much better my Ruger is. But that is exactly what I read here from some. Makes almost as much sense as telling them to buy a Sig 226 because you got one for $350 in your youth when a cup of coffee was 10 cents and a gallon of petro was .49. IRRELEVANT gibberish IMO.

Ok now you are getting schooled by a gun guy with real world experience in the industry...not an internet forum gun expert wanabee that considers their guns to be the best....like some posting here..lol. I've forgotten more about guns than either of you will ever know....and I don't care how great you think your equipment is. If you want to brag about your Ruger this is the place to do it.

You can both get a life and buy a clue. I don't care anymore. Your opinions hold right next to zero value to me. Don't bother even answering to my post. Your arguments are weak and not based in reality.....besides it seems that you have such a low level of reading comprehension that you can't even make effective counter points to mine anyways. Typical arrogant know nothing...know it alls. Bye :wink:

PS Ruger's AR's sell for the same reason the rest of their line does. The AR556 is a entry level gun at best...which is OK for most people. Unfortunately, as a Ruger fanboi I have been forced to pass on their AR line because they have had more issues than National Geographic so far with the guns coming out of that plant. I've had to tighten barrel nuts on 3 so far in just my neck of the woods. Based on your comments Its obvious you don't know anything about AR's either. Just more empty talk. LMAO schooled again.

 

[revhigh]

Blah blah blah .......

How about some links to all your range reports and target pics Al ....

Shouldn't be too hard for someone who used to post them 'all the time' ..... And could find posts from me on a totally unrelated forum from 4+ years ago.

BTW.... The 226 was 3 years ago .... The 75 about 4-5 years ago. Wrong again Al ...

Have you even FIRED a P gun in the last 5 years ? Have you FIRED ANY GUN in the last 5 years ? If so ... Lets SEE the targets And range reports you used to post 'all the time' ...

Like dueling with an unarmed man .....

REV




REV

 

[Al James]

I'm not your fiddle Rev. And you just made my point about your level of reading comprehension or lack there of. All talk no facts. That must make life so easy.

Why would I shoot targets for you. I have said over and over that Ruger SA pistols are 3-4" guns and that all your fav's are 1.5-3" guns. Its just a basic cost/benefit analysis Rev. Its what the market does to determine the winners and losers in almost every industry in this country. From cars to home appliances to guns. Get a grip on that term. Its a real thing. Just look at how Ruger dominates all your pet gun companies. Colt....LMAO. If it wasn't for Uncle Sam they would have failed the same multiple of times just 4 decades earlier. You keep asking the question why Ruger hasn't submitted the American for the trials....perhaps they know the story of Colt better than you do. LOL. Schooled again moderator/instigator. LMAO. You guys make this easy.

 

[Al James]

No I wasn't out looking for your posts on other forums. I was looking for a technical answer to a question I had about my 2014 Focus. I read a post there slamming the car and touting the Prius....on A FORD FOCUS FORUM. Not surprisingly I looked over to the left and low and behold saw the username.....Revhigh. It actually amused me. Like I said before you are a multi interest troll. They have advertisers there though so I'm hoping they weren't short sighted enough to make you a mod. Schooled again. :lol:

 

[revhigh]

You made statements, Al .... I called you on them. You can't deliver evidently.

Now the back pedaling, spinning, and attempted deflection starts.

Doesn't work Al .... You're just a troll that probably doesn't even own any guns. And even if you do you probably haven't pulled a trigger and heard a bang in decades. All talk ....zero substantiation. The true meaning of troll.

REV

 

[Al James]

Spin this instigator:

http://rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87753&start=60

Who won again? Refresh my memory lead fingers. Schooled again. :lol:

I really love your comments there too. Heres a good one:

"I can throw bullets at the target at 10 yards and get a 2 inch group !! "

This coming from the instigator that said his only 2 P guns shot 8-10" groups at 25 feet. LMAO. I'm worried about your lead levels Rev! Its a simple blood test. SA....

 

[revhigh]

6 years ago ... That certainly qualifies as 'all the time' ....

REV

 

[Al James]

I said I used to.....read all your snarky remarks in that post. Everyone here knows it Rev. You can deflect and project all you want..... Your presence here is toxic. Always has been.