New Model Blackhawk .357 Cylinder Alignment

[CCoburn]

I just traded my .44 for a brand new .357 the other day. Recently while admiring this beautiful all black single action revolver, I noticed something a bit odd. Those 'bullet' impressions that go around the circumference of the cylinder that you use to know when to close the gate to prevent scoring. On mine the one on the left side is showing more than the one on the right side – like the cylinder could be rotated a hair more CW for them to be even on either side and for it to look right. I never noticed this with my Ruger .44 SB Hunter that I traded for this.

This led me to check the actual alignment of a chambered/loaded round. With the hammer forward(of course), and my left hand only on the grip away from the trigger (not that it matters much). I shined a penlight down inside from the muzzle to check the orientation of the loaded round, and then I rotated the cylinder a click and repeated to check another(different) round. It is a bit of a crude visual inspection, but it does appear to line up, pretty much, but I can't really say whether it's perfect or not.

This just seemed a bit odd or off to me, and it got my attention enough so I registered here to inquire about it. Any comments would be appreciated. I haven't fired the gun yet.

 

[CCoburn]

Of course by "line up" I mean that the loaded round is correctly oriented relative to the interior of the barrel that it is to travel through. I'm not sure what the margin for error would be for this sort of thing, but I presume they test fire these guns prior to releasing them for sale.

 

[hittman]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[pisgah]

Have you fired it yet? Did it work normally? Excessive side-spitting, or recoil, or evidence of anything out of the ordinary?

I suspect that the reason you never saw this with your .44 is that you never looked at it as closely...

I know a fellow who has owned a S&W Model 28 for decades, and just asked me a few weeks ago if this frame crack he just noticed was normal. He had just noticed the hairline trace of the edge of the side plate, the same as every S&W revolver made in the last century and a half or so...

 

[s4s4u]

GOTTAPIC?

 

[CCoburn]

It's a beautiful gun. I'll probably just try a couple rounds and post the results. It might take a few days.

 

[contender]

Welcome to the Forum!

Those "bullet impressions" are,, if I read it correctly,, are the notches for the latch to lock the cylinder in place.
In Ruger SA handguns,, there is always a little "play" to allow the cylinder to align with the forcing cone when fired. This is normal.
Do not try & cock it very slowly,, as it may not appear to properly align. Normal cocking will allow the weight of the cylinder to rotate properly,, and allow the bolt to lock in place.

As noted,, take it out & shoot it to see how it does!

 

[Hondo44]

There's two checks you can make quickly:

1. Using a metal rod with squared off end that fits down the bore from the muzzle end; the smaller the rod diameter is, the better. Slide it down one side of the bore to see if it catches on one side of the cylinder chamber throat. Then do the same thing on the other side of the bore. Can you feel it catch on both sides of the chamber? Does it feel about the same amount on both sides of the chamber? If different from side to side the cylinder is not exactly aligned to the barrel. It doesn't have to be because as someone said above, that's the job of the forcing cone.

2. Remove the cylinder. Using the bore rod or a small 6" steel rule, lay it across the forcing cone of the barrel perpendicular to the barrel: does it look square to the barrel? If not square it could leave an uneven powder stain around the chamber holes on the front face of the cylinder. It can be squared by carefully honing it with a honing stone. Does it have to be square? Not really, but I always hone them square if they aren't.

 

[CCoburn]

Do not try & cock it very slowly,, as it may not appear to properly align. Normal cocking will allow the weight of the cylinder to rotate properly,, and allow the bolt to lock in place.

It's brand new and the cylinder's pretty tight. The initial context was just closing the gate and rotating the cylinder a hair if need be. I did what you said, and everything actually looked pretty good. So, I'm feeling a little better about this now and can move on to whatever's next.

Thanks.

 

[CCoburn]

I haven't been a member of a shooting range since around 2005 although I do have a few word-of-mouth suggestions. I'll have to Google for some specifics and set some time aside, or next time I find myself in the middle of nowhere and have a decent backstop, it happens, which is why I said it might take a few days.

Love these Rugers. Always beautiful and built like tanks.

 

[contender]

"next time I find myself in the middle of nowhere and have a decent backstop, it happens,"

Well, if you happen to be anywhere near WNC,, I own an outdoor range. Not exactly in the middle of nowhere,, but a fun place to enjoy a Ruger or three. !

(You have USA listed as your location!)

 

[Hondo44]

Do not try & cock it very slowly,, as it may not appear to properly align. Normal cocking will allow the weight of the cylinder to rotate properly,, and allow the bolt to lock in place.

I wouldn’t want a revolver that didn’t lock the cylinder regardless of how slow the hammer was cocked. I’d fix the timing!

 

[CCoburn]

I wouldn't want a revolver that didn't lock the cylinder regardless of how slow the hammer was cocked. I'd fix the timing!

I always click the cylinder in place after closing the gate if it needs it, but maybe the visual discrepancy here is the difference between loading, closing the gate, and locking the cylinder (if it needs it), as opposed to just giving the hammer a good pull on an empty gun and having a look while the gun is cocked.

I wonder if it's just a safety feature that prevents accidental discharge by hammer blow when the hammer is in the forward position, but it looked okay last time and I'm ready to move on from that and try it out when I get 'round to it.

 

[CCoburn]

A friend was reading about a pretty elaborate range close by that's run by Inland fisheries, but I started to cringe when she kept going on and on about their rules and procedures. I've always used a headset, but I've never used eye protection. I think my corrective lenses would qualify, but I don't really care much for wearing those during the day. I only use corrective lenses for driving at night now.

I think I'll pass on that place for now. The old range I was using back in the early 2000s might still be open, but you had to be NRA and apply for membership. A bit of a pain; maybe they all are to some extent.

 

[CCoburn]

I did find a public range to use yesterday and fired off a couple rounds. Just to reiterate, the visual discrepancy I noticed on cylinder alignment is real but is only noticeable when the gun is not cocked. When the gun is cocked and fired everything lines up perfectly and the firing pin hits dead center on the primer cap.

I still don't have any info to elaborate further on this, but I think it's something to do with these newer models. I don't ever recall noticing anything like this on any of my older SA revolvers.

 

[s4s4u]

A friend was reading about a pretty elaborate range close by that's run by Inland fisheries, but I started to cringe when she kept going on and on about their rules and procedures. I've always used a headset, but I've never used eye protection. I think my corrective lenses would qualify, but I don't really care much for wearing those during the day. I only use corrective lenses for driving at night now.

I think I'll pass on that place for now. The old range I was using back in the early 2000s might still be open, but you had to be NRA and apply for membership. A bit of a pain; maybe they all are to some extent.

The one indoor range I frequent in the winter months requires eye protection, as all do. Regular glasses meet the requirement, so I would expect the same there. I used to shoot with 1x reading glasses to sharpen the front sight and they were also fine. Eye protection isn't a bad thing to have as a habit.

 

[s4s4u]

I wouldn't want a revolver that didn't lock the cylinder regardless of how slow the hammer was cocked. I'd fix the timing!

Every Ruger SA revolver I have had has done that. Once the hammer is back the cylinder is locked in place. If you cock the hammer uber-slowly you can rotate the cylinder at some point in the cycle. Has never caused a problem for me.

 

[contender]

I own a range,, and eye & ear protection is mandatory safety equipment on my place.
PERIOD!

 

[Hondo44]

Every Ruger SA revolver I have had has done that. Once the hammer is back the cylinder is locked in place. If you as cock the hammer uber-slowly you can rotate the cylinder at some point in the cycle. Has never caused a problem for me.

I am referring to the cylinder not locking at full cock if it’s cocked very slowly.
What you describe is true no matter how fast or slow you cock the hammer. At any point in the cocking cycle you can advance the cylinder by hand and if you do it early in the cocking cycle before the hammer actuates the cylinder lock, you can advance the cylinder all the way around.

 

[Hondo44]

I wonder if it's just a safety feature that prevents accidental discharge by hammer blow when the hammer is in the forward position, but it looked okay last time and I'm ready to move on from that and try it out when I get 'round to it.

Speaking about new models, the safety feature is the transfer bar; the gun can not fire unless the trigger is pulled because only then is the transfer bar held in position by the trigger for the hammer blow to be transferred to the firing pin. The other safety feature is the hammer can’t be cocked unless the loading gate is closed. Neither feature affects the alignment of the cylinder.

 

[Hondo44]

Just to reiterate, the visual discrepancy I noticed on cylinder alignment is real but is only noticeable when the gun is not cocked. When the gun is cocked and fired everything lines up perfectly and the firing pin hits dead center on the primer cap.

I still don't have any info to elaborate further on this, but I think it's something to do with these newer models. I don't ever recall noticing anything like this on any of my older SA revolvers.

The cylinder is locked in the exact same alignment with hammer down or at full cock. Please describe your “discrepancy “ once again.

 

[kelljor]

I own a range,, and eye & ear protection is mandatory safety equipment on my place.
PERIOD!

You mentioned in a post you owned an outdoor range in WNC, may I ask where? I am in Hickory and have been looking for an outdoor range (we only have one decent indoor, 15 or so bays, with reasonable prices here in Hickory. There is one other indoor here that I know of but his prices are high and they only have one or two bays.

 

[s4s4u]

I am referring to the cylinder not locking at full cock if it's cocked very slowly.
What you describe is true no matter how fast or slow you cock the hammer. At any point in the cocking cycle you can advance the cylinder by hand and if you do it early in the cocking cycle before the hammer actuates the cylinder lock, you can advance the cylinder all the way around.

I don't disagree, but not sure that is the situation here. Certainly not from what I have gathered.

 

[contender]

kelljor,, Yes,, I own an outdoor range. However,, it's not currently open to the general public for general use.
Yet.
We do shoot a sanctioned Level I USPSA match here, once a month. The 4th Saturday of each month. That's open to people who want to shoot USPSA.
Then my range is open for special events, and training only. Scheduled & closed except to those participating in these things.

Eventually when I give up more serious work,, and slow down a bit,, I do plan on opening it to the public a day or two per week. But it'll have to be on my schedule,, as I will have to be there as Range Master, Range Safety, and in general,, GOD to anybody who wishes to enjoy shooting.

Due to liability, and the fact that un-supervised idiots fail to follow safety rules, and prefer to shoot up things that do not need to be shot, I can not open it to the general public w/o me being there.

I can fully sympathize with your desires kelljor,, as I get calls all the time from people looking for a place to shoot. Heck, I have strangers come looking for my range, (no signage unless an event is going on,) with plans on "just wanting to shoot a bit" and seem upset when I tell them it's not open to the general public.

I had one guy a few years ago, who got a bit belligerent with me, saying; "It's listed on a website, and I should be able to use it!" I almost had to call the police on him. He didn't want to take no for an answer. But I FIRMLY told him that if he wanted to insist on shooting on MY private property,, I would be HAPPY to go to his house & shoot on his place. He said; "Where I live you can't do that!" To which I replied; "EXACTLY!!!!!!! MY property,, MY rules!" Then I told him to leave or I'd be calling the police. And I mentioned that if I ever caught him on my cameras I'd prosecute him for trespassing, as this was his official notice of "No trespass!"

But you are WELCOME to come to my special event,, the "Ruger Forum East Coast Gathering" we hold each fall, in October, and enjoy my place. NO CHARGE! Lots of fun & fellowship! Watch for the info in the Lounge & a "Sticky" at the top!

 

[Mobuck]

" Those 'bullet' impressions that go around the circumference of the cylinder that you use to know when to close the gate to prevent scoring. "
HUH?? 'to prevent scoring' of WHAT??
I must be missing something?? :unsure:

 

[CCoburn]

Yes, I use those impressions as markers to know when to close the gate to prevent excessive "scoring" of the cylinder on some revolvers. Those big impressions; not the smaller ones that lock the cylinder. If you just close the gate at random and have to rotate the cylinder more to lock it, it will mark up the cylinder more creating a line(scoring) around the external circumference of the cylinder. It's probably nearly impossible to avoid this, but you can maybe minimize it some.

 

[s4s4u]

If you shoot a factory Ruger SA a lot, you will see a turn ring form on the cylinder. You are simply trying to delay the inevitable.

 

[NikA]

The OP is referencing the leads to the cylinder stop notches. Not sure that I would expect them to be exactly symmetric, nor do I know whether they are truly uneven as the OP looks at them. They do impact the cylinder turn line on Old Model Ruger SA.

 

[s4s4u]

The OP is referencing the leads to the cylinder stop notches. Not sure that I would expect them to be exactly symmetric, nor do I know whether they are truly uneven as the OP looks at them. They do impact the cylinder turn line on Old Model Ruger SA.

Hmm, I thought he was referring to the "flutes" on the cylinder

 

[NikA]

Hmm, I thought he was referring to the "flutes" on the cylinder

View attachment 77134

I could be wrong. The clue for me is that the SBH Hunter he referenced in the first post has an unfluted cylinder. I'm presuming he knows the term 'flute', but maybe not 'lead/leade'.