new MKIII 22/45 jamming

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rugerlovah

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
196
i recently purchased a mark III 22/45 with 5.5" bull barrel, new. for the most part, i have been very pleased w/ the gun. trigger pull isnt nearly as bad as i had been led to believe, and its surprisingly accurate. the loaded chamber indicator/magazine disconnect safety is excessively redundant (seriously, why would you need both?), but i can live with it.

but the gun is jamming enough that its plain irritating to take it to the range. its the same jam every time, empty case does not get ejected, gets stuck between the next round (which will be slightly chambered) and the side/top of the receiver. usually have to eject both the empty hull and the partially-chambered live round to get it going again. i get 2-4 jams per magazine.

is this unusual for the gun? does it need anything more than breaking-in?

Here are other facts: have about 100 rnds through it so far (slow going with multiple jams). have tried federal ("champion", lead solid point, comes in the blue box - not bulk), winchester bulk, and remington golden bulk. all jam but maybe the remington jams a little less? cleaned the gun thoroughly before shooting, have cleaned again during shooting (i will be surprised if this is the issue). i am willing to concede that i bought the wrong ammo 3 times, but i hope the gun will be more flexible ... basically im just racking up more and more .22 revolver ammo at this point (my revolver doesnt jam :D )

thanks for any input
 

wetidlerjr

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
299
Location
TIPTON IN/USA
From another site:

All blowback operated guns, like most 22LR pistols, do not use the extractor to extract the ammo except when removing a live round manually. In fact, some of these rimfire guns, like the break open Berettas, don't even have an extractor! The pressure developed from the cartridge firing pushes the the empty case back against the bolt, out of the chamber, until the case hits the ejector. The "extractor" simply acts a hinge to direct the spent case out of the gun when the ejector hits it. So the extractor must hang onto the spent case for the ejector to get at it.

If you remove the bolt from the gun and slide a round under the extractor, that extractor must be able to hold the case up against the bolt and it should not fall off. You should be able to shake the bolt lightly and the case not fall off the bolt.

Shaping an extractor is nothing more than filing but it is educated filing. Without some training in gunsmithing, I would not recommend you try modifying your existing one. But I would recommend getting a Ruger replacement part, installing it, and see if that makes the extractor work as intended. Also look for any burrs on the bolt where the extractor fits that might be interferring with its operation. Check the spring and plunger to be sure they are free to operate correctly and that they are installed correctly on the extractor. If that fails send the gun back to Ruger.

Your Ruger is a target gun and as such works best for accuracy and durability if fed only Standard Velocity ammo. While your Ruger is robust enough fo even Hyper Velocity ammo, you will get the best results from the gun if you limit it to Standard Velocity ammo. I have 10+ 22LR Target pistols and every one of them, including my Ruger MKII Government model shoot and operate fine on CCI Std Vel ammo. So I bought a case and that is the only pistol ammo I use.

As an aside, blowback operated guns are a balancing act. The force of the extracting fired case working on the bolt has to balanced against the mass of the bolt, the recoil spring and the forces required to cock the hammer. Manufacturers compromise on the recoil spring making it just strong enough to operate the gun with the lightest recoiling ammo it will use, Standard Velocity. More powerful High and Hyper Velocity ammo upset the perfect balance and abuse the gun unnecessarily, banging the bolt against its stop, and inducing vibrations and motions the gun does not see with Standard velocity ammo for which it is perfectly balance. Other ammos beat the gun up but Rugers are if nothing else strong and can take it but all that extra motion can sometimes screw up the ammo loading process.

LDBennett

Link to original post: The Firearms Forum
 

contender

Ruger Guru
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Sep 18, 2002
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Lake Lure NC USA
The above post is pretty good, EXCEPT that I disagree that you should only use standard velocity ammo.
Rugers are built, tested, etc using the most common form of 22LR ammo. That means high velocity, or basically the type of ammo that is sold everywhere.
It will function with std velocity just fine, but it doesn't need to be exclusivily std vel stuff.
 

woodape

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
7
Location
Southeast Ohio
I had the same problem with my 22/45 MKIII Hunter. Tried several different types of ammo both standard and high velocity and it didn't help. I finally removed the LCI and no more jams!!
 

rugerlovah

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
196
woodape":mtie121o said:
I had the same problem with my 22/45 MKIII Hunter. Tried several different types of ammo both standard and high velocity and it didn't help. I finally removed the LCI and no more jams!!

hmmmm .... thats right where the empties get stuck :idea:
 

woodape

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
7
Location
Southeast Ohio
hmmmm .... thats right where the empties get stuck :idea:[/quote]

Worked for me!
Just field strip the gun, remove bolt and gently tap the [bottom] of the bbl assembly with a plastic face hammer or screwdriver handle and the pin that holds the LCI in place will drop out in most cases. I took the whole assembly out and haven't had a jam since! :D
Good luck !
 

wetidlerjr

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
299
Location
TIPTON IN/USA
contender":1u3qhw6o said:
The above post is pretty good, EXCEPT that I disagree that you should only use standard velocity ammo.
Rugers are built, tested, etc using the most common form of 22LR ammo. That means high velocity, or basically the type of ammo that is sold everywhere.
It will function with std velocity just fine, but it doesn't need to be exclusivily std vel stuff.

I posted it because of the other info (which is excellent) and it would have made no sense to cut out references to standard ammo. Opinions in the quote are not mine.
 

zenbiker

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
45
I had about 5 jams today exactly as rugerlovah described in about 100 rounds through my Mk III Hunter with the 5.5" barrel. CCI Minimags work best for me but 5% is unacceptable. I just took the tab off of the LCI (which I think is such an unnecessary thing) What we have is a metal tab dragging on the casing which must retard ejection.
You can just take the tab off and put the indicator back in the slot for cosmetic reasons but you have removed the offending part. No need to remove the whole assembly.
I'll post when I get back to the range. I'm hoping this is the end of these jams. They make a great shooting gun less than a joy to shoot.
 

WyoGunner

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
193
Location
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Okay, so I installed the volquartsen extractor and it did reduce the number of stovepipes, but it didn't eliminate them. I had about 5 in 60 rounds. I am using some older Winchester ammo, so that could be part of the problem. I don't really want to take out the LCI, but I would if it will make a difference. I am going to wait and see what zenbiker says about it. Another problem I am having is that it is sometimes difficult to seat the magazines in the gun. This is only a problem when they are loaded. It seems like i can't always get them to lock into place. This results in the first round smacking the bottom of the feed ramp causing me to have to eject it and start over. Any info on the seating problem? By the way, i really love this gun, but it has been a little bit of a work in progress.
 

zenbiker

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
45
I took the tab off the LCI as described and I have a new gun! No jams at all in 250 rounds. I was never able to get past 50 rounds without a jam before.
I can't believe it was so simple. This is a five minute fix and works great for me at least. If you are having jams...try it. You can always reinstall.
 

rugerlovah

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
196
i am having a heck of a time removing the LCI. i see the little pin that holds it in, but it won't come out. no way to get purchase on it, and banging on the bottom of the receiver doesnt seem to have loosened it
 

Bullseye57

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
372
Sometimes a magnet can be used to help pull the pin out. Usually the LCI return spring is holding it into the frame. It takes a gentle squeeze to release it. Too much pressure and it won't move too little pressure gets the same result.

R,
Bullseye
 

rugerlovah

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
196
I finally managed to remove it last night, thanks for the help. we'll see if it improves function if i remove the little metal piece
 

zenbiker

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
45
Just put gentle pressure on the LCI while tapping. The light pressure takes the spring pressure off the pivot pin and allows it to fall out.
If this doesn't work, try a drop of "Liquid Wrench and let it sit for 15 minutes the retry the tapping and light pressure.
 

rugerlovah

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
196
Update:

I was able to remove the LCI from the field-stripped gun. I re-installed the plastic portion, but removed the metal portion. Gun looks the same when assembled, but the LCI is disabled.

Result: no jams. Literally 100% reliability for 400 rounds this morning, with 4 different types of ammunition: Federal champion and Remington golden 40 g. solids HV, Remington cyclone 36 g. hollowpoints HV, and even CCI standard velocity 40 g. solids. Ejection was brisk and positive. Even with rounds which felt like they had a little less "pop" (always seem to come across these with bulk ammo), there were no jams.

I am very, very pleased w/ the gun at this point. I only have to wonder ... what the heck was ruger thinking putting a protruding piece of sheet metal in the receiver ?!?!??!?!

btw, the CCI standard velocity rounds were my favorite. POI was the same, i didnt have to change the sights, and the gun barely recoiled at all. VERY accurate. I'll add a pic this evening
 

zenbiker

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
45
rugerlovah...Right? An amazing difference! I can now just shoot the thing over and over without any jams. Glad you did it. How can we let Ruger know that their superfluous indicator is not only not needed but ruins the gun's reliability?
 

Bullseye57

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
372
Ruger designed these Mark III series pistols with the LCI to comply in states that have stricter importation laws. Big states like California added the requirement for an LCI into their firearms laws for importation and manufacturers have to comply to get their models on the CA DOJ's approved handguns list. It's doubtful that Ruger will remove this feature but they may investigate a way to make it more reliable.

R,
Bullseye
 
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