My first batch of Colt 45 reloads complete!

[Mus408]

I made up 25 rounds consisting of 250 and 255 gr. hard cast bullets to test the 8.0 gr. load of Unique.
No problems at all with the Dillon 550 press other than a few adjustments.
Made several checks of powder weight and seemed to stay in the 7.9 to 8.1 range,with most right at 8.0
Luckily I had no problems with the primer feeding and seating,ONCE I found out how hard to push up on the lever to fully seat the primers....takes a good push on the handle to do that.
Now will try and get to my range area this weekend and run them over the chrony.
Hope they all go bang with a bullet exiting the barrel!
Only thing I see that could make for a better bullet would be a sizing die to resize to .475 case diameter,instead of the current .470 die that came with the setup.
All my new ammo from Federal,Winchester and Underwood measures at .475 case OD.
I see no real reason to squeeze the case down below that number.
Right now,I just sized down just below where bullet will seat,and at a .480 dia. below that level, they still load up fine in all my .45 shooters.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Sounds great, only thing you might have trouble if you don't size the whole case, or maybe not. I'm not a colt 45 shooter. :D

 

[wizofwas]

They should go bang very nicely at about 800 FPS. I'm guessing here because I've croneyed 7 Grs. Unique at just under 750 FPS.
Sizing NEW brass at just the neck is OK if it fits all of your 45's. Remember that the brass will expand to fill the chamber that it's fired in and not all chambers are the same. I'm guessing that you'll have to size the whole case when reloading fired brass, if you want them to be interchangeable between multiple weapons.

 

[Jim Puke]

Unless you use a universal decapping die, how will you decap without resizing the full length of the brass?

 

[Mus408]

I have an old single stage RCBS press a friend gave me and decap the brass before cleaning.
I then raised the decap/sizing die in the Dillon. I read of this on another forum regarding case sizes.
All my reloading brass is once fired cases that I have shot over several years out of my Ruger NV.
and a Uberti 1873 lever gun. They all measured right about .480.
I also tried these cases in my new Taylor's "Running Iron" Colt style sixgun and they fit fine as well.
Seems they expand to that chamber size and that's why, right now, I don't see the need to size them
to .470 all the way down the case.
I do notice that when seating a .452 bullet,I see slight ripples of the brass where it fits along the lube and crimp grooves...you can see it in reflected light and something you don't see as much with new .475 O.D. factory brass.
Learning as I go along in this new hobby, as an old toolmaker and engine builder! :D

On my old RCBS press..I had no dies or anything with it so I bought a .45 Colt shell holder and machined up a special punch that aligns inside the I.D. of the case and pops the old primer out.
It also let's me know when I have picked up a .44 Mag case out of mixed brass,as the punch won't enter the shell...great for sorting when decapping!

Let you all know how they work out....I wonder now if a fired .480 case will stick in the cylinder after being fired again??
They fit easily right now....we will see.

 

[Jim Puke]

I have always full length sized and it has never presented a problem and brass life has never suffered from it...so I guess I am having trouble understanding why you would chose to not do that.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I have always full length sized and it has never presented a problem and brass life has never suffered from it...so I guess I am having trouble understanding why you would chose to not do that.

Hi,

Jim, did you ever see the Bill Murray movie--mighta been "Meatballs"?--where he and the summer campers are sitting around chanting "It just doesn't matter?"

Now, with that mental picture fresh, think back to when you first started loading, and how many "new" things seemed quite important that have now faded from memory. If you were lucky, as I was, you got started before the Internet became the world's fastest way to spread misinformation, and there wasn't nearly as much "suspect information and poorly founded opinion" floating about (they made us use those words in charm school instead of "pure unadulterated BS!") Today's new loader is flooded with all kinds of stuff that just serves to scramble the brain, and without experience to wade thru it, can get bogged down some...

So methinks our friend is just going thru the growing pains all new loaders do: learning what's important in his routine, for his guns and loads, and what "just doesn't matter."

Rick C

 

[wizofwas]

Let you all know how they work out....I wonder now if a fired .480 case will stick in the cylinder after being fired again??
They fit easily right now....we will see.

Yes, that might be another problem. But I'm thinking that they'll come out of the cylinder with no problem. Let us know how it works out.

 

[Mus408]

Well you learn from doing and if you make a mistake you learn from that as well.
I apprecitate any tips along the way.
Most of you here are probally experienced loaders with years under the ammo belt.
I just got into this a bit later in life I guess. But coming from a machinist/toolmaker background,I just didn't understand the reasoning of resizing the case smaller than the size that new ammo comes in.
I know you have to resize to have the new bullet fit correctly in the case.
Just something I tried on this first batch and if it causes the case to be tight when ejecting the spent case,I will have learned something new!
Another question is the correct crimp. I just adjusted the crimp die until it looks about like the profile of new factory ammo using a similar type bullet,plus measured at the smallest part of the crimp and compared to new ammo. I assume that is the way to do that? Not much info on that in my Speer manual or other info. I have read.

 

[Mus408]

Just learned something new to me....the pistol cylinder chamber is taper cut from back to front where the case sits up to the beginning of the throat. I guess for ease of loading and ejecting spent cases?

 

[wizofwas]

I just measured my resized 45's and they measure 4.70 using a RCBS die. I also measured the only store bought 45's that I have (Magtec) and they measure at 4.73. Not enough of a difference not to resize the whole case.
Crimping, if it looks good, go for it. When you get down to really fine tuning your loads then crimping will make a small(?) difference. Different powders and/or loads and/or bullets will work better with different amount of crimp. Personally, I don't shoot well enough to worry about it. YMMV

 

[Mus408]

Yeah, as long as I can get the shots inside a 4 inch circle from 15- 20 yds with a handgun,and ring my steel,that's plenty good for me or anything else!
I just found that the size for the .45 Colt case is .480 as quoted in my Ammo and Ballistics book. I assume that is the max size?
Oh well can't wait till Sunday gets here so I can get out to my woods place and shoot my own ammo!
I've built and raced my own engine builds for years and this is just as much fun and cost a bunch less!

 

[Chief 101]

You did fine and it will just get better...keep it going

 

[SweetWilliam]

To each his own. But I would recommend full length sizing after each firing. Why take a chance loading up a bunch of bullets to later find out the won't fit in the cyl.
New cases will take many of loadings especially using 8grs. of unique.

 

[Mus408]

Dixieboy...that is exactly what I did with the first batch of reloads! My current .45 shooters are..Ruger
New Vaquero, Taylor's Uberti "Running Iron" with 3.5 inch barrel...a sweet little shooter with an action job, Uberti 1873 lever rifle with 24 inch barrel and a Rossi Ranch Hand based on the 1892.
I tested several of my reloads in all these guns for chamber fit and no problems.
You would think in this day of CNC machining centers and the price you pay for new guns,they would get the sizing correct for the cylinder bores. It's not that difficult a thing to do!
Anyway, looking forward to Sunday to try out my reloads!

 

[SweetWilliam]

I have 2 45colt Rugers & when I shoot them I'll usually take a mix of 75 to 100 rounds ranging from 5grs of Titegroup to full power H110 loads. I just throw the empties in my bag so they get mixed up. So for me full sizing is the way to go. I can't imagine getting away with only 1/3 sizing full power loads for to long.

How much accuracy Improvment is obtained by only sizing a 1/3 of the case?
Anyone have any links to some reading info on this subject?

 

[Chief 101]

if they fit in the cylinders and shoot I say, no worries not going to hurt anything

 

[Jim Puke]

Much easier than opening up the cylinder throats (which I've also done) on my .45 Colt Blackhawk

Contraire mon frere...neck sizing does nothing to compensate for tight throats...tight throats swage the BULLET...nothing you do to brass will prevent this.

 

[SweetWilliam]

I have 2 45colt Rugers & when I shoot them I'll usually take a mix of 75 to 100 rounds ranging from 5grs of Titegroup to full power H110 loads. I just throw the empties in my bag so they get mixed up. So for me full sizing is the way to go. I can't imagine getting away with only 1/3 sizing full power loads for to long.

How much accuracy Improvment is obtained by only sizing a 1/3 of the case?
Anyone have any links to some reading info on this subject?

William - Ask, and you shall receive! :D

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm

Above you'll find some great articles by John Linebaugh. I'd check out "The Mechanics of Handgun Accuracy"
and "Dissolving the Myth of the .45 Colt" on that page. Linebaugh is not the only one who has recommended
simple "neck sizing" in order to help line up cartridges in way-too-loose Ruger Blackhawk chambers.
Marshall Stanton told me about this in a phone call I'd made to him. And, if you check out his website,
"Beartooth Bullets" you'll find more great tips about loading/smithing than you're likely to find in one place.

Hey, if you're happy with what you're doing right now, I'll be the last guy to tell you to change anything.
However, if you'd like to see things improve, even if you're not sure that's possible, give what these guys
have written a look-see. - DixieBoy

I've read Mr. Linebaugh's writings before & just glanced at them again but I can't find anything in them about how sizing your brass effects accuracy.
I'm not saying your wrong, I just can't find it.

So for the people that are loading this way, After awhile don't you still have to full length size eventually?

 

[SweetWilliam]

And it's been my belief that the case mouth expands to seal in the cyl. when it's fired.
And for the people using the 1/3 sizing method, how much has your accuracy improved?

 

[SweetWilliam]

I'm not taking it as you trying to sell me on it. I'm curious & interested in this subject. It's something I haven't heard about before.
Am I correct in saying that eventually you have to full length size the cases or they won't fit in the cyl? And how much accuracy Improvment have you personally gotten?

 

[Mus408]

Nothing wrong with sizing the whole case if you have a .475 sizing die,since it would bring the spent cases back to their original size. Just don't need to squeeze them way down to .470

 

[Chief 101]

You did just fine Mus...shoot 'em and do it again if it works...

 

[Jimbo357mag]

...and this is why I don't shoot the 45colt. With the 44mag you just don't have all the problems with loose chambers and tight throats and rifling that is questionable. :D :mrgreen:

 

[Bucks Owin]

.45 Rugers have oversize chambers. The case expands forward of the head as much as .010"+ with "Ruger only" loads. Resize a case that has expanded that much more than a few times and you WILL encounter case failure due to a crack/separation eventually. By "neck sizing" you don't overwork the brass in this area forward of the case head...

I keep track of the number of "hot" loads a case recieves and limit them to five times. After that I fully size and retire the case to SAAMI level or "cowboy" loads...

Simple yes? :wink:

PS: Those with overly large cyl throats like the .455"+ of my '74 NM can improve their accuracy by shooting .454" cast bullets. My group size shrank from 3-4" @ 25 yds down to -1.5"... 8)

 

[Bucks Owin]

...and this is why I don't shoot the 45colt. With the 44mag you just don't have all the problems with loose chambers and tight throats and rifling that is questionable. :D :mrgreen:

I am not surprised that loading the 45 Colt is beyond your ability. Kinda parallels your political savvy... :shock: :mrgreen:

 

[Rick Courtright]

Brian Pearce has written about how Ruger's throat dimensions on the older Blackhawks used to run much too
large, and then when they finally addressed the problem ... on many of them the throats were running way
too small. :roll: The four that I've owned in the last decade and a half have run small in the throats.
But hey, that's why God made throat reaming kits! :D - DixieBoy

Hi,

Idea: how about we take up a collection, buy a throat reaming kit, and send it to Mike Fifer? It might be an idea to include a simplified instruction sheet on what it IS, and WHY it's a valuable tool... :oops:

DB, you're far more polite than I am about Ruger's "acceptable tolerance" practices! And anybody who goes and buys a toolbox full of special tools to make their brand new gun work the way it should have when it went in the box at the factory is far more tolerant, too. To each his own!

Rick C

 

[Jimbo357mag]

...and from what I read there are some Manufacturers, like Colt, that are even worse than Ruger in sizing their colt45 chambers. In fact I don't think there is another cartridge out there that has so much wrong with it. he he. Of course there is the 38-55 and the 45-70 but still the king is the 45colt and it is not exactly the same as the old 45colt, thank goodness. :D

 

[wizofwas]

Just a thought on the 45 Colt. Ruger says that their specs. are close enough. It todays world, those specs. are sloppy. But what about comparing them to the specs. of 45 Colts that were made by various manufactures over the years that there has been a 45 Colt. I'm guessing that Ruger's specs. will fall inline with them. I haven't had any problems with store bought ammo in my Rugers. So, as far as I know, a Ruger is good to shoot as long as you only shoot store bought ammo. My experience is very limited, I've only shot a handful of store bought ammo. Personally, I think that it's good to know that the cylinder throats are small in the 45 Colt. Then you can bore them out to .4525-.454 depending on what other 45 Colt platforms you are loading for. I know that when I buy a Blackhawk in 45 cal. that I'm going to have to work on it. It's really a small price to pay to have one of the best platforms made in a caliber that I really enjoy shooting.

 

[Mus408]

Went to the local gun show today and picked up the Lyman 49th Reload book for 20 bucks. Lots of great info,as you all know.
What I found is the difference in loads with same type of bullet, 250 gr. cast lead,but different O.A. length. A 1.600 bullet could handle up to 9.0 gr. of Unique powder where as the 1.570 bullet only up to 8.2..very important info there! In my test loads my 250 gr bullets are 1.575 and my 255 gr. (actual 253gr.) are at 1.585. I set my powder load at 8.0 which was holding 7.9 to 8.1
Now these cast bullets are not the same brand as those listed in the data,so I might be at the max limit on my 250 gr. bullets??
Does the lead hardness play a role in this to?? The bullets I'm using are in the 20-21 hardness range.

Will find out tomorrow on how they go bang!