More about the .45 Xtra Short.....

[Bob Wright]

I got the .45 ACP cylinder back from Keith yesterday for this gun. Had to ream the cylinder throats to .452". I have been using my 7 1/2" (Super) Blackhawk to work up some loads.




This target was fired from the 7 1/2" Ruger:


Been sort of a fun project.


Bob Wright

 

[NikA]

So this is a .45ACP length .45LC case? Like .45AR with smaller rim dimensions?

 

[Bob Wright]

So this is a .45ACP length .45LC case? Like .45AR with smaller rim dimensions?

That's it in a nutshell. The thin rim allows it to be used in Ruger Single Actions fitted with .45 ACP cylinders.

Bob Wright

 

[NikA]

Followup: do you cut the brass yourself, or is there a commercial (or aftermarket) source?
Looks like a very efficient cartridge in terms of reloading components.

 

[Hondo44]

Very cool. Good volumetric efficiency in those short cases. Who is Keith that reamed your chambers?

 

[Bob Wright]

Very cool. Good volumetric efficiency in those short cases. Who is Keith that reamed your chambers?

Keith Warner, my local gunsmith.


http://keithwarnerguns.com/

Bob Wright

 

[Bob Wright]

Followup: do you cut the brass yourself, or is there a commercial (or aftermarket) source?
Looks like a very efficient cartridge in terms of reloading components.

As to cutting the cases, I made a jig to hold five cases and run them through my bandsaw. Then through the neck expanding die (helps de-burr the inside some) and finally trim to exact length with my case trimmer.

The cases are loaded using .45 ACP dies and a .45 Colt shell holder in my RCBS press.

Bob Wright

 

[toroflow]

Sounds like the old ".45 Cowboy" brass of a few years ago.

 

[Poco Oso]

Never mind. Saw the answer to my question in the pics

 

[22/45 Fan]

That's it in a nutshell. The thin rim allows it to be used in Ruger Single Actions fitted with .45 ACP cylinders.

What advantage do these have over using regular .45 ACP brass which is cheap and available nearly everywhere?

 

[Bob Wright]

That's it in a nutshell. The thin rim allows it to be used in Ruger Single Actions fitted with .45 ACP cylinders.

What advantage do these have over using regular .45 ACP brass which is cheap and available nearly everywhere?

None whatsoever. But I don't have any .45 ACP brass on hand, and did have a lot of old .45 Colt cases with split case mouths. And these can still be fired in a .45 Colt cylinder.

And, they can be crimped.

Bob Wright

 

[Hondo44]

Plus it's a traditional looking cartridge, befitting a traditional revolver, the single action.

 

[Varminterror]

So... Is it different from the Cowboy 45 Special? Or not? Looks like 45colt cases cut down to 45acp length, anything else done to the cases?

 

[Hondo44]

Different only in the case head marking. the 45 Special is also ACP length. There might be a small difference in case wall cross section from the shortened 45 Colt case.

 

[win1894s]

Can u show pics of jig u made. And specs of the Wright 45 short? I think a lot of members would like this.

 

[dixie884]

Good report, thanx.

 

[TDF]

What advantage do these have over using regular .45 ACP brass which is cheap and available nearly everywhere?

None whatsoever. But I don't have any .45 ACP brass on hand, and did have a lot of old .45 Colt cases with split case mouths. And these can still be fired in a .45 Colt cylinder.

And, they can be crimped.

Bob Wright

To me the ability to crimp, and the fact the rimmed case doesn't have to headspace off the end of the case as the acp does, is a definite advantage. I've never been a fan of auto cartridges in revolvers for those two reasons. So I sure think this is neat.

TDF

 

[toroflow]

What roll crimp dies are available to crimp these short cases? Or does one have to cut down a .45 colt crimp die to be able to crimp these shorties?

 

[veeman]

Wouldn't a Lee Factory Crimp die work?

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

The Lee FCD (.45 Colt ) is too long as are all others I am aware of other than
The .45 auto rim. The .45 ACP dies taper crimp only. Shortening a .45 colt die would be the best way other than a special order die from RCBS or anoher maker.

 

[toroflow]

Does Lee make a factory crimp die for .45 auto rim? If not, then a 45 colt die would have to be cut down to roll crimp a 45 "xtra short" or Cowboy load. Me, I have always just used the 45 auto die's taper crimp for my 45 Cowboy brass. Seems to work just fine. If I want a heavy roll crimp for a heavy load, then I use 45 colt brass!

 

[veeman]

45 AR and 45 ACP use the same LFC die.

 

[toroflow]

45 AR and 45 ACP use the same LFC die.

Agreed, but it is not a roll crimp.

 

[NikA]

Take the crimp sleeve out of your .45LC FCD. Swap it into your .45ACP FCD. Voila! .45ACP roll crimp die. If you don't own one or the other, FS Reloading has a complete selection of die parts for order.

 

[Hondo44]

Same answer as Toroflow above: Voila, you'll still only have a 45 ACP taper crimp.

 

[NikA]

You mean this doesn't exist: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/217484/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-45-colt-long-colt-454-casull?
Funny, because I have something that I could have sworn was this.

Toroflow said that .45AR and .45ACP use the same FCD. The crimp sleeve outer dimensions and designs are close enough for all Lee Carbide FCDs that they can be switched. The inner dimensions of the die body differ in their range of adjustment. Therefore, if I take my .45LC FCD crimp sleeve, which is a roll crimp for a rimmed revolver round, and place it in my .45ACP FCD die body, you're saying I won't have a roll crimp anymore? Or that I won't have an adjustment commensurate with the ACP case length? Because I'm nearly certain from taking these things apart and experimenting with them that I will have exactly that.

 

[Hondo44]

Just trying to understand what your describing. The link shows a die. What's a crimp sleeve? The crimp shoulder is machined integral with the die body in my dies.

Are you saying the crimp shoulder is removable as part of the bullet seating stem and adjust up and down inside the die body? Do you have a photo?

All I could find was this for a rifle cartridge: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/639649/lee-modern-reloading-2nd-edition-revised-reloading-manual

 

[NikA]

Lee FCD for straightwall pistol cartridges have a final sizing carbide ring that is supposed to size the loaded round to fit in all SAAMI chambers. As a result, the die body is supposed to nearly touch the shell holder at the top of the press stroke. Therefore, to adjust the crimp without moving the die body, the knurled adjuster on top contacts a floating sleeve in the die body that has the crimp profile machined into it:
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die/

 

[Thel]

Didn't the .45 Cowboy have a bit larger rim diameter?

 

[Hondo44]

NikA,

Thx that helped, Ok, a floating sleeve for crimping after the bullet is already seated in another die. I wasn't familiar with the Lee dies. Come to think of it, though, my old Lyman rifle dies have something similar in the seating die w/o the carbide ring.

Yes, I can see that exchanging sleeves would do it. Or, if you don't have both 45 Colt and 45 ACP FCD dies (or don't want to have to switch sleeves), you could just buy an extra sleeve to place on top of the 45 Colt roll crimp sleeve in the 45 Colt FCD die as a spacer so the adjustment stem can lower the sleeve enough to roll crimp the much shorter case in the 45 Colt die.

Although I never needed a roll crimp on 45 Cowboy loads because their whole purpose is for light/moderate loads that don't pull the bullets under recoil.

But still good to know! Thx,