Lyman/Williams peep sight on model 1886 question.

[wolfee]

Not owning one of these new/old Winchester (Miroku) lever actions is killing me. I gotta have one, just can't make up my mind which one. Anyway, If I decide on the '86 it looks like they are pre drilled and tapped for a receiver peep sight. My question is: Can I install the peep sight without removing the rear buckhorn sight? Is the peep sight view high enough that I would see over the buckhorn? A little theoretical geometry suggest it would work. I don't mind if there is a little interference from the buckhorn.


btw, please don't direct me to a Winchester chat group. I only trust Ruger guys to know what they are talking about!

 

[daveg.inkc]

You might call Williams. I have a Williams peep on my 1892 Winchester. I called and bought apertures, a variety pak of screw ins.

 

[gramps]

At worst the peep sight might look through the buckhorn? I have a peep sight on my 77/44. The open sight folded down. Personally, I like the 1892 better. Good luck!
gramps

 

[Paul B]

When I put a receiver sight on my M94 "Winnie" I just removed the rear sight and used a filler plug to close the gap in the barrel. The rear sight was in the way and I felt it confused the sight picture. YMMV.
Paul B.

 

[tom black]

I've got a bunch of old Winchester levers an any time I put a tang sight on one I remove the rear sight an install a blank. Too me, a tang sight was kinda like the scope of the day. I shoot very well with barrel sights but always better with a tang.
Tom Black

 

[pete44ru]

Not owning one of these new/old Winchester (Miroku) lever actions is killing me.

If I decide on the '86 it looks like they are pre drilled and tapped for a receiver peep sight.

My question is: Can I install the peep sight without removing the rear buckhorn sight ?

Is the peep sight view high enough that I would see over the buckhorn ?

Yes, you can install a receiver peepsight, but as Paul stated, leaving the rear bbl open/iron sight on will block a proper peepsight sight picture - unless the rear bbl sight is a folding leaf type.


BTW

The proper use of a peepsight does NOT involve conscious centering of the front sight in the peepsight aperture.

Properly, the shooter looks THROUGH the aperture and places the front sight "on target" - the human eye will subconsciously center the front sight, automatically.

An erect rear sight blade that infringes on the peepsight picture will be detrimental to both speed and accuracy.

The only time a rear bbl sight is left on is when a tang peepsight is installed, AND the rear open sight is switched out for a folding sight, so that the rifle can be set up with dual zeroes - the bbl sight zeroed for a relatively short range, and the tanger for a longer range.

With dual zeroes, the rifle is carried with the bbl sight "up" and the tang sight "down" in case of a suddenly-presented close range game shot.

If a game shot is presented at a longer distance, with practice, there is usually ample time to fold the rear bbl sight and raise the tang sight for the shot.


.

 

[kmoore]

Here's my opinion, others can be different, that's Okay. I have a 1886 45-70 made in 1890. I shoot 405 gr bullets. It was drilled/tapped for a receiver sight. I had a bunch of gunsmith work done on it about 15 years ago. Part of which was a 20 inch barrel. I did not add a barrel rear sight. Thought about adding a tang sight, but it kicks a lot and wondered how often it would be hitting my face. I figured a receiver sight would remain the best.
This has a old redfield peep sight mounted on the side of the receiver. It is low with a 100 yd zero. The front sight has the shortest ramp I could buy and shortest front blade. I tried taller ones and it shot nearly a ft low at 100 yd. If my rifle had a rear sight on the barrel, it likely would need to be removed due to being the path of sight from peep to front sight.
Bottom line is you may have to wait until you actually have the gun and shoot it to see how the rear sight works with a peep. If it comes with barrel and front sights, that front sight likely will need to be changed out either shorter or higher when adding a receiver peep. My 94 and 92 had to have taller front sights when I added peeps. Also the henry .22 needed a taller front sight when I added a receiver peep to it.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

As you can see I prefer the Tang Sight and no my 45/70s don't put my eye out with the tang sight SASS doesn't allow the receiver sight. I use a fold down rear or use a filler on most of them.

 

[kmoore]

Jim do you shoot hunting loads in the 45-70 and does the tang hit your face or forehead in a sitting or bench rest position? Like I said I have not shot any with a tang in a high recoiling rifle. With tang sights added did you find the front sight needed changed?
Not challenging you, you have experience I do not.
BTY, you have some great looking rifles and shotguns.
Thanks Ken

 

[wolfee]

Thanks for all the input. I think I will just forget about the peep for now and shoot it about 10 years "as is". Then, maybe if I am getting a little bored with it, tap out the barrel sight and stick a peep on. Or something.

btw, Jim, that's a LOTTA 45-70's! Got to shoot one of the original trapdoors myself about 40 years ago. My uncle had one he bought for a dollar in the depression.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Jim do you shoot hunting loads in the 45-70 and does the tang hit your face or forehead in a sitting or bench rest position? Like I said I have not shot any with a tang in a high recoiling rifle. With tang sights added did you find the front sight needed changed?
Not challenging you, you have experience I do not.
BTY, you have some great looking rifles and shotguns.
Thanks Ken

All of the front sights are stock except one on the 1866 that is not pictured.
As far as shooting "hunting loads" not sure of what you mean. The factory 45-70s are made to be able to shoot safely in the Trap doors so they are a little light same as a factory 45 Colt. Your 1886 is probably a black powder rifle and should not be shooting real heavy loads. I have shot factory loads in all my 45-70s and some 500 gr hand loads of mine in the TD and the Sharps with no problems. They will make your shoulder black and blue for sure. A factory load in the light Marlins is also pretty stout when you shoot a bunch. I'm not much of a bench rest shooter. I would rather shoot standing off hand the way it was supposed to be done. Yes I have shot off the bench with factory loads and no problems with the tang sight.

 

[kmoore]

Yeah I meant SASS loads might be reduced over a hunting load. In my rifle I am playing it safe and loading at trap door data. I think it is under 1400 fps with the 405 gr bullets. My rifle has a big muzzle jump. And with the curved steel butt plate it bruises the shoulder. I should have had a 24 inch or longer barrel put on it. I was thinking of handy and fast handling while elk hunting, the 20 inch would work better. Second shots take awhile to get back on target.
I had to replace the cartridge guide, did that myself. The rifle when levered fast would not chamber the round from the mag., it flew out the top right behind the fired round. After testing the new part, I stood and fired 4 rounds as fast as I could get sighted on a 100yd small bore bullseye target. First 2 hit the black the others lower.
Good to hear the tang sights will not hit ones face from the recoil. I mentioned positions since most place their face closer to the action while shooting sitting or benching the gun vs standing.

 

[buckeyeshooter]

Not owning one of these new/old Winchester (Miroku) lever actions is killing me. I gotta have one, just can't make up my mind which one. Anyway, If I decide on the '86 it looks like they are pre drilled and tapped for a receiver peep sight. My question is: Can I install the peep sight without removing the rear buckhorn sight? Is the peep sight view high enough that I would see over the buckhorn? A little theoretical geometry suggest it would work. I don't mind if there is a little interference from the buckhorn.


btw, please don't direct me to a Winchester chat group. I only trust Ruger guys to know what they are talking about!

Yes, you can. I have a Turnbull manufactured 1886 and a Japanese Winchester, I have a foolproof mounted on both and have not removed the rear sight. I see over the rear sight with the peep set at a 200 yard zero and then use the buckhorn through the peep for 100 yard work. To make sighting faster, I remove the screw in apeture and use the peep as a 'ghost ring'. You can add the apeture if that works better for you.

 

[pete44ru]

Yeah I meant SASS loads might be reduced over a hunting load.

In my rifle I am playing it safe and loading at trap door data. I think it is under 1400 fps with the 405 gr bullets.

My rifle has a big muzzle jump.

And with the curved steel butt plate it bruises the shoulder

.

And, that is exactly why I have long refused to shoot a .45-70 with a boolit over 300-350gr.

.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Not owning one of these new/old Winchester (Miroku) lever actions is killing me. I gotta have one, just can't make up my mind which one. Anyway, If I decide on the '86 it looks like they are pre drilled and tapped for a receiver peep sight. My question is: Can I install the peep sight without removing the rear buckhorn sight? Is the peep sight view high enough that I would see over the buckhorn? A little theoretical geometry suggest it would work. I don't mind if there is a little interference from the buckhorn.


btw, please don't direct me to a Winchester chat group. I only trust Ruger guys to know what they are talking about!

Yes, you can. I have a Turnbull manufactured 1886 and a Japanese Winchester, I have a foolproof mounted on both and have not removed the rear sight. I see over the rear sight with the peep set at a 200 yard zero and then use the buckhorn through the peep for 100 yard work. To make sighting faster, I remove the screw in apeture and use the peep as a 'ghost ring'. You can add the apeture if that works better for you.

WOW DOUBLE WOW!!! That Turnbull 86 is one hell of a Rifle.
Post pictures of it.
I met Doug and his Daughter at a Fly-in last year while they were going to a ranch here in Texas. Both are great folks.
I have six Rugers that he did the case harding on. Outstanding work.