Letter from a Gun Rag

[JackBull]

Defends Hogleg I’m writing to respond to you article “Experts pick Best All-Around Handgun”. To Characterize the SA revolver as a “second rate sporting gun, a third rate defense gun and a fourth rate target gun” is an insult to those of us who have and believe in them. Tell that old blowhard Jeff Cooper to review the following. I’ll take your points one at a time so you can understand. The SA revolver is a far better choice than the weak, underpowered 1911 for almost any sporting use (except for maybe double-tap contests, where you try to make up for a lack of power by shooting more shots). As a defense gun it is the fasterest of all to draw and fire- faster than the 1911, too -- and I’ll trust an accurate first shot over a magazine full of shots any day. As for the fourth rate target gun part, why don’t we have a little contest, a target match from 15-150 meters, your 1911 vs my Super Blackhawk? I think it is fairly obvious which arm is better suited for the task, and Ill bet my Ford Bronco on it. Yep, with my S.A. 44 Mag I can shoot anything from gophers to grizzles and blow the hell out of anyone who tries to break into my house too. That’s a claim that no 1911 will ever be able to make. Hell, the only thing better than a SA revolver would be two SA revolvers. What a concealed carry combo that would make! A pair of five-inch Super Blackhawks in underarm butt-forward holsters packed full of Federal 180grain hollow points. That would send the criminals running for their lives for sure. So you can take your newfangled wondergun and stick it.

 

[peachhead]

Where did that come from? Lol

 

[Johnnu2]

I always thought of Jeff Cooper (RIP) as a blowhard..... I had an uncle that looked and "posed" himself similarly.

J

 

[rammerjammer]

Wait what letter? What is this beef and how did it start?

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Colonel Cooper provided a ton of good regarding training/fighting with a pistol and the required mental state/stages of mind still being taught today. That said, he did have a few offsetting opinions...

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

I always thought of Jeff Cooper (RIP) as a blowhard..... I had an uncle that looked and "posed" himself similarly.

J

A lot of people said the same thing about (RIP) Elmer Keith, but he was the real deal.
But I do understand your comment about Col. Cooper. Just a difference of opinion, thank God we still have that option!

When I think of a S/A for CCW, I think of Bob Wright.

One of grandpa's sayings was, "If you can brag with out lying, go right ahead and brag"
Terry

 

[hittman]

A mentor told me once to not cross the line between confidence and arrogance.

 

[3040krag]

I wasn't the biggest fan of Cooper but he has been gone for a considerable time. Is someone caught in a time warp, off their meds, or just got a hold of some old magazines?

 

[Ronbwolf]

It would be nice to have some idea about where this started, like a link to an article. A defense of the 1911 is hardly necessary, a design that has been in use for over 112 years, has been produced by every company that makes firearms, and some typewriter, and sewing machine makers, is obviously successful. The SA revolver is similarly successful, though not as widely produced (in number of manufacturers) as the 1911. The SA revolver is certainly a good CC firearm, and probably the best for regular users, like those who shoot Cowboy Action, SASS, assuming they do it regularly, and well. As for Col. Cooper, if you want training in the 1911, a SA revolver, a Double Action revolver, or just about any other handgun, long gun, or shotgun, his school, "Gunsite," in Paulden, Arizona, offers courses to cover that!

 

[Hvymax]

It's the truth though. A Revolver is heavy, has limited capacity and harder to conceal/carry. A good optic equipped Double Stack in one of the up powered 45's, 10mm, 357sig will eclipse almost any revolver in every practical way!!!

 

[Jim Walsh]

I always found him insightful and entertaining. I enjoyed his colorful manner of speech and his use of “jazzbo” as a description of those with whom he disagreed.

 

[peachhead]

It's the truth though. A Revolver is heavy, has limited capacity and harder to conceal/carry. A good optic equipped Double Stack in one of the up powered 45's, 10mm, 357sig will eclipse almost any revolver in every practical way!!!

Naaaaaah
**Puts his 642 in his pocket and walks away**

 

[eveled]

When I think of a S/A for CCW, I think of Bob Wright.

My first thought too! A real class act. Beautiful revolvers in beautiful leather.

A mentor told me once to not cross the line between confidence and arrogance.

Good advice. Those old authors could have used. But also their arrogance made them a good living.

A defense of the 1911 is hardly necessary,

AMEN!

The only issue I see with single action revolvers is the slow reload. He would have a good argument for a double action revolver over a 1911.

The article was obviously written before plastic fantastic high capacity guns were a thing.

 

[454Redhawk]

I qualified on our state course with a 45 Colt Blackhawk. I shot the full NC qual course under time which score of 100 day and night. Sadly, the head firearms instructor refused to allow me to carry it because a SA revolver is "too dangerous." I also qualified with a 1911, also a SA, that same year with a 100; score and it was fine with them.

 

[Hvymax]

Defends Hogleg I’m writing to respond to you article “Experts pick Best All-Around Handgun”. To Characterize the SA revolver as a “second rate sporting gun, a third rate defense gun and a fourth rate target gun” is an insult to those of us who have and believe in them. Tell that old blowhard Jeff Cooper to review the following. I’ll take your points one at a time so you can understand. The SA revolver is a far better choice than the weak, underpowered 1911 for almost any sporting use (except for maybe double-tap contests, where you try to make up for a lack of power by shooting more shots).

My 357sig pushing 90gr Lehigh's around 2,000fps for almost 800ft lbs can reliably ring steel at 300yds. I've just ordered a 6" 40S&W barrel that'll be hurling 155gr bullets around 1,350fps 600+ft lbs for Deer Hunting. The 357sig being a bottleneck isn't legal in my state.

 

[planetcat]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but my only comment on this convoluted thread is that I absolutely hate loading SA revolvers. Unloading and reloading is slow and cumbersome.

 

[GYJ44]

Practice makes perfect. I used to burn through a brick of .22LR in about 2hrs of shooting Single Sixes.

 

[s4s4u]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but my only comment on this convoluted thread is that I absolutely hate loading SA revolvers. Unloading and reloading is slow and cumbersome.

It is a zen kinda thing....slow is fast....or something like that....

If you aren't kissing each cartridge prior to dropping it through the gate, you are going too fast

 

[contender]

"A good optic equipped Double Stack in one of the up powered 45's, 10mm, 357sig will eclipse almost any revolver in every practical way!!!"

I politely disagree with this a little bit.

The SA shines in hunting over the calibers & types you mention. 99% of the people who hunt a lot with a handgun use ammo more in line with loads that are less than what you choose to use. And a SA handgun, loaded in a caliber starting with a "4",, using a heavier, quality cast SWC designed bullet, moving along at 1100-1200 fps is very capable of tackling real big game. Bear, elk, moose, etc. The whitetails are not in the same class as those really big game.
The 45 acp, the 10mm, and a .357 Sig just do not have the same capabilities as most of the big bore SA handguns.
And yes,, some folks hunt with a 10mm,, but SERIOUS handgunners who hunt a lot,, prefer to not choose it as a primary caliber.

The use of lightweight bullets,, and a lot of velocity isn't as dependable as slower & larger mass.

Now,, on humans, or even some deer hunting,, they may work ok.

 

[Hvymax]

"A good optic equipped Double Stack in one of the up powered 45's, 10mm, 357sig will eclipse almost any revolver in every practical way!!!"

I politely disagree with this a little bit.

The SA shines in hunting over the calibers & types you mention. 99% of the people who hunt a lot with a handgun use ammo more in line with loads that are less than what you choose to use. And a SA handgun, loaded in a caliber starting with a "4",, using a heavier, quality cast SWC designed bullet, moving along at 1100-1200 fps is very capable of tackling real big game. Bear, elk, moose, etc. The whitetails are not in the same class as those really big game.
The 45 acp, the 10mm, and a .357 Sig just do not have the same capabilities as most of the big bore SA handguns.
And yes,, some folks hunt with a 10mm,, but SERIOUS handgunners who hunt a lot,, prefer to not choose it as a primary caliber.

The use of lightweight bullets,, and a lot of velocity isn't as dependable as slower & larger mass.

Now,, on humans, or even some deer hunting,, they may work ok.

I did say "almost" any revolver. There is always things like this!!!

 

[NH Rugerman]

Jeff Cooper died in 2005 and “the newfangled wonder gun” has been around for 114 years…..WOW!!

 

[Captain Slapnuts]

It's the truth though. A Revolver is heavy, has limited capacity and harder to conceal/carry. A good optic equipped Double Stack in one of the up powered 45's, 10mm, 357sig will eclipse almost any revolver in every practical way!!!

You think it's easy carrying a double stack 45 with an optic? And that's not going to be heavy?

 

[Hvymax]

With 95rnds on board!!! And yes it carries easier than the 44 alone. This is setup in 357sig pushing 800ft lbs with a 300yd effective range.

 

[peachhead]

I qualified on our state course with a 45 Colt Blackhawk. I shot the full NC qual course under time which score of 100 day and night. Sadly, the head firearms instructor refused to allow me to carry it because a SA revolver is "too dangerous." I also qualified with a 1911, also a SA, that same year with a 100; score and it was fine with them.

Frankly, that instructor should have his certification revoked. That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

 

[Captain Slapnuts]

With 95rnds on board!!! And yes it carries easier than the 44 alone. This is setup in 357sig pushing 800ft lbs with a 300yd effective range.View attachment 87071

With 95rnds on board!!! And yes it carries easier than the 44 alone. This is setup in 357sig pushing 800ft lbs with a 300yd effective range.View attachment 87071

900' effective range with a handgun round, huh?

 

[Teflon97116]

What rag?
What month?
What article?
WTF?

 

[Xrayist]

I wasn't the biggest fan of Cooper but he has been gone for a considerable time. Is someone caught in a time warp, off their meds, or just got a hold of some old magazines?

It seems that a lot of people are very fond of/brave when it comes to criticizing people who are no longer around. Just human nature for some....

 

[pyth0n]

If you're not kicking in drug dealers doors, or going down town Bagdad, but for self defense, your life your choice. The old saying goes, "Beware of the man/woman who has only one gun, because he/she knows how to use it". Or something like that.

 

[LDB]

There's a reason some load recipes are marked "Ruger only" and if you have a SBH 4-5/8" to run them through it would be almost as concealable as a full size 1911 etc. And I suspect those 6 shots would pack a LOT more wallop than the 8 from the 1911. But then it's time to reload. And the SBH just isn't going to keep up.

But with the right bullet in those "Ruger only" rounds you can drop bad guys 2 at a time, if they cooperate and line up right. Something the 1911 isn't going to do.

Switch to the SRH and you've got the quick reloading of speed loaders for each 6 rounds. Not sure about running "Ruger only" loads but I suspect it would.

In any event, you can't be very undergunned (if any) with a good Ruger in hand.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

For carry I'd go with my 1911. Easier for me to conceal and faster reload if required.

For hunting I'd go with my 7-1/2" Blackhawk in an "improved" .45 Colt loading. Better ballistics and -- for me -- better handling.

Suit yourself.

I think Cooper's a hoot.

JMHO