leading 45 colt

[demo_slug]

been experimenting with new powder and everything new is giving me some leading just some light leading on the start of the rifling. I got the reamer from Brownell and reamed my throats. and gave it another shot.


these are all "Ruger only loads"
with laser cast 255 . win primers

what doesn't lead in my two rugers:
20 gains h110. no smoke and clean as a whistle.


now this leads it up
10.2 grain unique. lots of smoke and after 6 shots there are deposits.
10.6 long shot. less smoke then unique, light leading.

I discovered that a hornaday xtp250 with 25 grains of H110, will clean all the lead out. so my methodology was. shoot two XTP250s, run the boresnake thru barrel. look thru the bore to verify its clean. then shoot 6 lead bullets, run the Boresnake thru the barrel and look thru the breach for leading.

the unique shot real good for what its worth.

I'm using a lee "factory crimper" , can the firmness of the crimp be a culprit? I used to really smash them untell it didn't go anymore, but lately I've just crimped until the brass rolls and snugs into the grove.

 

[flatgate]

You've convinced me to stick with the slow burning powders!



I have minimal experience with fast powders.....

I use the Lee Factory Crimp die, too. Yup, you don't need a real hard crimp, just one that "gets the brass into the crimp groove".

JMHO,

flatgate

 

[Hammerdown77]

You may just have a gun that is more susceptible to leading. I've got one or two like that.

Incidentally, I had a little leading using Unique at all loadings, unless I used Lee Liquid Alox on the bullets.

As WESHOOT2 told me, don't worry about it unless it starts affecting accuracy.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

"you don't need a real hard crimp"

This from the guy whose "crimps" resemble bottlenecked cartridges.

 

[Hammerdown77]

these are all "Ruger only loads"
with laser cast 255 . win primers

what doesn't lead in my two rugers:
20 gains h110. no smoke and clean as a whistle.

Didn't see that you were using Lasercast bullets. Those are pretty hard. For anything other than max H-110 loads, I'd try some swaged bullets (Hornady offers some), or cast bullets around 9-12 BHN, with a good lube, and I think you'll see your leading problem go away or be significantly reduced.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

A brief excerpt from IOWEGAN's lengthy post "Lead Bullets and Revolvers" over on the "other" RugerForum . . .

"Matching bullet hardness to chamber pressure is the key to accurate and foul free
loads. The concept is simple …. it takes a given pressure to force a bullet to obturate.
(bump up in diameter) The higher the chamber pressure, the harder the bullet must be.
The process is a bit complicated and requires some math.
To compute bullet hardness, divide the chamber pressure by 1400 if rated in psi or 1440
if rated in CUP. Example: a 38 Special with a 158 gr lead bullet has a max chamber
pressure of 17,000 psi; 17,000/1400=12.1 so a BHN 12 bullet would be optimum. A 38
target load with a 148 gr bullet generates about 14,000 psi; 14,000/1400=10 so a BHN 10
bullet would be optimum. A 38 Special +P load with a 158 gr bullet generates a max
chamber pressure of 20,000 psi. 20,000/1400=14.2 so a BHN 14 bullet would be best. As
long as the BHN number is reasonably close to the computed value, the bullet will
obturate properly and shoot quite well. In the above example with the +P load, any bullet
from BHN 13 to BHN 15 will suffice. When there is a significant mismatch between
chamber pressure and bullet hardness, the bullets will leave a nasty lead deposit in the
barrel, which builds up more with each shot and destroys accuracy."

The above won't make up for improperly-sized chamber throats and nasty forcing cones, but it's where you should be starting with your loads.

 

[DGW1949]

As lead bullets go, Laser Cast bullets are perty-dern hard. So is the lube they come with...and...they got's a beveled base. Of them three aspects, the only one you have any control over is lube. With that in mind, ya might try what Hammerdown77 suggested and coat them with Alox.

Your "the unique shot real good for what it's worth" comment don't surprise me at all. For the past 100 years or so, Unique has perty-much been the 45LC powder that all the others are compared to.
Yeah, it's a bit smoky. Yeah, it burns a bit dirty. But on the other hand, it "shoots real good".....and....as your experimenting has suggested, you'll get about 2X as many loads per pound than ya would with say, H110.
Them aspects may or may not matter to you. The drift I'm getting from your original post is that you are trying to completely eliminate all lead deposits. And if that is indeed your goal, about all I can say is that there aint no pefect powder and there aint no perfect bullet...meaning that often one has to give up one thing in order to get another.

I can't comment on your crimp because I don't use LEE dies, nor do I know the optimum crimp for powders/loads other than what I use. I CAN say however, that if one is going to use Unique for the 45LC, the first thing nessesary is to ensure that the (sized) brass affords a LOT of neck tension. Second thing is to adjust the crimper so's it provides a good-firm crimp. Doing both is mandantory for achieving proper bullet pull, maximum accuracy and minumum residue.
Some expander dies provide proper neck tension as-is, some don't. The ones that don't will either need "fixed" or replaced with a smaller one.

I don't have any experience with today's crop of jacketed revolver bullets because it's been over 20 years since I quit using anything other than lead. About all I know about that is that in my past experience, a bit of lead is easier to remove than getting out the last bit of copper fouling. I only mention that because you mentioned that you use them...at least occassionaly.

Hope something here helps you out.

DGW

 

[Bucks Owin]

I expect that like everything else pertaining to the .45 LC, John Linebaugh knew what he was doing when he picked three powders for all his .45 loads. W231, HS6 and W296/H110. I haven't yet tried economical to shoot W231, but the latter two are clean, consistent ballistically and work as advertised in John's velocity chart... :wink:
For decades, Unique was the "go to" powder in most handgun loadings and many still dote on it. I've shot my share. It worked fine but then the same could be said for black powder! Time marches on and these days, around my bench, it's "obsolique"...
I think the big Colt case is at it's best with the slow burners and heavier bullets. A tight case and crimp, a "not too hard" cast bullet with a good lube that fits your throats, and John's recommended powders will make you smile...

PS. I'm finding that you can lump SR 4759 in with the slow burners, I'm having good luck with it too FWIW...

John Linebaugh:
My personal loads include only 3 loads that I have settled on for all my handgun shooting. All are safe in Rugers and have been recommended to hundreds of shooters, All report good results and accuracy.

Powder Gr. Bullet Velocity Use
WW 231 8 gr. 260 cast 900 fps defense/plinker/big game
HS 6 13 gr 260 cast 1050 fps big game
HS 6 13 gr 310/320 cast 1000 fps big game
H-110 24 260 cast 1280 fps big game
H-110 24 310/320 cast 1250 fps big game/ dangerous game

 

[demo_slug]

.....and....as your experimenting has suggested, you'll get about 2X as many loads per pound than ya would with say, H110.

yup. that is why I'm playing around. 3 reasons

1. my jug of H110 doesn't last very long.
2. I also wanted some "lighter" loads. I plan to but a new Vaquero.
3. I wanted to settle on a powder that worked for 45ACP and 45 colt.

I've been thinking about changing bullets. I've used the hornaday lead before, they look funny. and I couldn't get a good supply of them.

I like the laser cast because I've never had trouble getting them.

I've figured that all my data in the past was corrupted because the XTP250s sweep the lead away and I had a habit of popping off a cylinder full at the end of the day. because its darn fun. so all my experience of thinking I had leading free ammo might be false.

I'll retest True Blue and HS-6. and I have W231. and I'll see about getting some alox.

maybe I'll try plated bullets again.

 

[Rclark]

4227 works good too.... and so does Unique . Sometimes the 'oldy' is still the 'goody'.....

Agree with above that you are shooting to hard a bullet for the lighter loads of Unique. Need to buy a softer (10-14 BHN) lead bullet. If I remember right the Laser Cast are in the 20 BHN range.

No problem getting Penn bullets or Rimrock. Just order some up! There are other vendors too....

http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html

http://www.rimrockbullets.net/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1&sort=20a&page=2

 

[Hammerdown77]

1. my jug of H110 doesn't last very long.
2. I also wanted some "lighter" loads. I plan to but a new Vaquero.
3. I wanted to settle on a powder that worked for 45ACP and 45 colt.

I'll retest True Blue and HS-6. and I have W231. and I'll see about getting some alox.

I had never used 231/HP-38 until recently. I bought it with the intention of primarily using it in .45 Auto, but I decided to try it in .45 Colt one day just for yucks. I loaded up a max charge (according to Hodgdon) of 7.1 grains, a standard pressure Colt load, under a 255 grain Missouri Bullet. Out of my Blackhawk that easily shot under 2 inches at 25 yards, and recoil was light. More incredibly, it shot to point of aim in my Cimarron SAA replica, a gun that is extremely picky about shooting to POA. Last night I loaded up some using Linebaugh's load of 8 grains, so I'll be interested to see how those do.

 

[Pal Val]

I've settled for 4227 for hardcas tlead bullets in my .44 mag and .357mag loads. Did away with the leading I was getting from Unique and Blue Dot. Seems like pushing the bullets past the 1,000FPS mark with 4227 keeps the leading down to a minimum, but doesn't work as well with Blue Dot.

 

[btrumanj]

Most all of my shooting is with commercial cast lead bullets including Laser Cast and I seldom shoot really heavy loads. I do have light leading with some loads but if they're accurate I just get out the old brush with the strands of a Chore Boy scrubber and usually 6 to 10 strokes takes it out. In my case, life is too short to try and find a load with absolutely no leading. FWIW I did have my BH cylinder throats reamed by cas.

 

[demo_slug]

thanks for the reply..

it is nice to know I'm not the only one....

Ultimately I just want to make good ammo, and seeing lead in my barrel makes me think I'm not doing it right.

 

[10MMGary]

I will add this to all the good info those with more experience than I have, have given you. Using jacketed projectiles will not remove leading from a barrel. It may spread it down the barrel further and it may give it a copper color so it may appear gone, but it does not remove the lead. The only thing that removes leading is elbow grease and a good lead remover.

 

[bigboredad]

A chore boy is way better and way easier than elbow grease

 

[10MMGary]

A chore boy is way better and way easier than elbow grease

Without elbow grease Chore Boy does nothing, Heck you can't even get Chore Boy out of the box without a little elbow grease

 

[demo_slug]

funny that you are the only guy to say that.

why would shoving Chore boy into a barrel be anymore effective then pushing a tightly fit copper slug pushed by 29000 psi combined with heat?

I will add this to all the good info those with more experience than I have, have given you. Using jacketed projectiles will not remove leading from a barrel. It may spread it down the barrel further and it may give it a copper color so it may appear gone, but it does not remove the lead. The only thing that removes leading is elbow grease and a good lead remover.

 

[Hammerdown77]

I smell a "MythBusters" episode!

 

[bigboredad]

because when you look at a brush wrapped up in a chore boy you can see all the cutting edges that grab on to the lead in your barrel. with each pass the lead get dumped out as your brush exits and all those little brass grabbers are ready to cut again. the bullet is smooth and round and just irons the lead into your barrel some lead will be shot out but not all and the lead that remains will be just a wee bit harder to get out. If you want to shoot lead out of your barrel try gas checked bullets they work better than a jacketed barrel