LC9s Polishing Internals

[XsidX]

Hello guys,

I would like to ask those more knowledged in the matter of polishing internals what would be the main parts to polish on my LC9s, I have put about 700-800 rounds through mine, and recently got the misses her own version of the muddy girl design, I have noticed that the feed ramp polish might be actually needed, as I have had some FTF with hollow points, I usually shoot the ones that I have already chambered and loaded when I get to my range, and replace with new ones after I get back home, the rest of the time I shoot fmj at range, never had this problems with fmj.. I do not consider ammo relevant to this as is same maker (freedommunitions), only difference is from hollow point to fmj, and also, I would say I've had this happened, maybe 2-3 times tops out of 20 range visits, although not a lot, still a concern in the case of emergency to have that ftf... so what would you guys say that could benefit the gun from polishing besides the feed ramp?

Ps. First post on here, have looked for other listings and found similar to other SR guns, but not LC9s directly, if there is one, just post link I must've missed it in my search of forum. (I abbreviated FTF as Failure to Feed, don't want people to think that was Failure to Fire, just in case.)

 

[loaded round]

Why bother. The LC9s is an out and out defensive pocket pistol period. I'm a happy owner of a LC9s and it had an excellent trigger pull right out of the box, so if your pistol feeds and functions properly leave it alone. If you want a light trigger pull and polished internals, spend several thousand dollars and by a match target pistol.

 

[hittman]

Why bother. ...... if your pistol feeds and functions properly leave it alone.

Welcome to the Forum.

I agree with this above.

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with the above. If the gun works, keep it that way.

 

[DGW1949]

If I understand the OP correctly, his main concern is that the gun in question occasionally chokes on the HP ammo he uses.

My simple solution would be to try another brand of HP ammo....then, if that don't help, get a different gun.
Either way though, the LAST thing I'd do is modify my existing gun so's it would work with the one certain brand/type of ammo which I happen to have on hand.

And just in passing.....
The last time I took a hard look at the 9MM ammo which Freedom Munitions was selling, it was NOT loaded with FMJ or JHP bullets, but with copper-plated lead bullets instead.....and we all know that lead bullets don't work all that well in some semi-auto pistols.
Aint sayin' that that's the problem in this case...just sayin'.

DGW

 

[woodsy]

And just in passing.....
The last time I took a hard look at the 9MM ammo which Freedom Munitions was selling, it was NOT loaded with FMJ or JHP bullets, but with copper-plated lead bullets instead.....and we all know that lead bullets don't work all that well in some semi-auto pistols.
Aint sayin' that that's the problem in this case...just sayin'.

DGW

Not pushing Freedom at all (never used their stuff), but nowhere on their website does it say that ALL their 9mm bullets are of the plated variety. In fact, they say that they regularly use, for example, Hornady XTP's, which are definitely NOT plated bullets. Don't know where you got your info.

 

[DGW1949]

And just in passing.....
The last time I took a hard look at the 9MM ammo which Freedom Munitions was selling, it was NOT loaded with FMJ or JHP bullets, but with copper-plated lead bullets instead.....and we all know that lead bullets don't work all that well in some semi-auto pistols.
Aint sayin' that that's the problem in this case...just sayin'.

DGW

Not pushing Freedom at all (never used their stuff), but nowhere on their website does it say that ALL their 9mm bullets are of the plated variety. In fact, they say that they regularly use, for example, Hornady XTP's, which are definitely NOT plated bullets. Don't know where you got your info.

I got my info from examining their 9MM ammo itself, all of which at that time, was in fact being made with plated lead bullets just like I said......And that included both their "new" and "reman" offerings regardless of projectile weight or configuration.

After reading your post, I checked their website and yeah you are right in that they have since started offering a couple of additional (and much-more expensive) 9MM loadings which just as you said, use a Hornady JHP.

Sorry that my info regarding the brand of ammo being used by the OP was a bit dated....but hey, the points I was making still stand, and yeah, I still think it's something he needs to check into BEFORE he sets about trying to modify his gun.

DGW

 

[s4s4u]

I'd think it prudent to try some different HP ammo before modifying the gun. That said, polishing the feed ramp isn't exactly a major modification.

 

[5of7]

I have corrected feeding problems is semi auto guns by polishing the feed ramp on many occasions.
Another area that sometimes needs polishing is the breech face and the corners of the extractor.
Polish just to the point of smoothing up the area in question, but not enough to affect the dimensions of the part being worked on.
If that doesn't work, trade it in on something else. 8)

 

[kwh]

A little polishing would not hurt, but as s4s4u stated above I would definitely try a different profile H.P. for carry. Just because it functions 100% on hardball does not mean it will function with the same Mfg. H.P. round. My go to H.P. is Hornady for function,but I carry Federal HST if it functions 100%.

 

[CoyoteHunter_]

Hello from Coyotehunter_ Reply to XsidX:

I did a lot of testing of this Pistol today with some Hornady Critical Duty 9mm Luger +P 135 Gr FlexLock ammo and had several failure to feed (FTF) due to nose diving bullets getting stuck on the feed ramp and not chambering when I worked the slide by hand and had a full 7 round magazine (Ruger USA and Italy type 7 round mags) in the gun.

The top bullet in the 7 round magazines can be depressed downward easily using this type of ammo and I think that is what causing the nose diving bullet and the FTF.

I used two different Ruger Italian Made 7 round magazines and one USA Made Ruger 7 Round Mag and one USA Made Promag 9 round magazine. All four different Magazines have the nose diving bullets with this type of ammo(Hornady Critical Duty).

IMHO it's the ammo that causing the problem.

I will add that I have shot over 1000 round easily of 9 mm Blazer Brass 115 gr FMJ type bullets over the last two years in my Walthers PPQ M2 9 mm 4" barrel and in my little Ruger LC9S Pro Pistol and didn't have this FTF problem.

I need to test this out more thoroughly at the pistol range and actually shoot these Hornady Critical Duty ammo to see if it happens as often when actually shooting as when just hand racking the slide to empty the bullets out of the magazines.

And I have polished the feed ramp on the Ruger LC9S Pro with my Dremel tool today and using the Dremel Polishing polish compound and a buffer wheel. I did this once before when I first got my Ruger about a year ago. Just took the barrel out and did the polishing again today and then cleaned the gun using Hope's Elite Gun Cleaning Solution and a wire brush and cotton 2"x 2" cloth patches. I also used some foaming bore cleaning stuff and let it set for 5 minutes each time. Then I ran some oil patched though the barrel to protect it from rust. Followed that up with a clean dry patch to remove any excessive oil. I only used two drops of oil on the oily patch before cleaning up the inside of the barrel with a dry patch. The gun was clean and ready to go and it still had FTF with the FlexLock type bullets in all four of my Ruger Magazines after the repeat polishing and cleaning of the feed ramp on the Ruger's barrel.

So polishing the feed ramp on the barrel didn't really help alleviate this problem with the Hornady Critical Duty ammo failing to feed properly.

I'm retired and have plenty of time to play with these guns now and do this type of testing. I'm also a scientist and try to be very detailed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello guys,
I would like to ask those more knowledged in the matter of polishing internals what would be the main parts to polish on my LC9s, I have put about 700-800 rounds through mine, and recently got the misses her own version of the muddy girl design, I have noticed that the feed ramp polish might be actually needed, as I have had some FTF with hollow points, I usually shoot the ones that I have already chambered and loaded when I get to my range, and replace with new ones after I get back home, the rest of the time I shoot fmj at range, never had this problems with fmj.. I do not consider ammo relevant to this as is same maker (freedommunitions), only difference is from hollow point to fmj, and also, I would say I've had this happened, maybe 2-3 times tops out of 20 range visits, although not a lot, still a concern in the case of emergency to have that ftf... so what would you guys say that could benefit the gun from polishing besides the feed ramp?

Ps. First post on here, have looked for other listings and found similar to other SR guns, but not LC9s directly, if there is one, just post link I must've missed it in my search of forum. (I abbreviated FTF as Failure to Feed, don't want people to think that was Failure to Fire, just in case.)

 

[woodsy]

Coyote: I believe you made a quote, but then failed to submit your comment/post.

 

[CoyoteHunter_]

Coyote: I believe you made a quote, but then failed to submit your comment/post.

I misplaced the post text that I was replaying to. So I did some edit work on my post to make it right. Thanks for the headsup

Basically I said that I polished the feed ramp on my Ruger LC9S Pro and it didn't stop the FTF using the Hornady Critical Duty 9 mm Luger +P 135 gr FlexLock ammo.

The Bullet Nose designe on the FlexLock Ammo is the problem IMHO. The nose gets hung up at the bottom of the Feed ramp on my Ruger LC9S Pro.

 

[Mike J]

coyote hunter - This may be a stupid question but if this is only happening when you chamber a round by hand could it be that you are riding the slide or not pulling it fully to the rear before releasing it to chamber a round. I think you are spot on to test & see if it happens when shooting a whole magazine of ammunition from the gun. Maybe try locking the slide-inserting the loaded magazine-the releasing the slide to see if it jams or not that way. Just to eliminate the possibility of human error. If that doesn't work I believe I would try a different brand of hollowpoint.

 

[CoyoteHunter_]

Hello guys,

I would like to ask those more knowledged in the matter of polishing internals what would be the main parts to polish on my LC9s, I have put about 700-800 rounds through mine, and recently got the misses her own version of the muddy girl design, I have noticed that the feed ramp polish might be actually needed, as I have had some FTF with hollow points,

I tested the Critical Duty from Hornady today and had FTF also while shooting. The first round fired and the second round nose dived and got stuck at the bottom of the feed ramp on my Ruger LC9S Pro. My Walthers PPQ M2 9 mm 4" gun worked flawlessly with the Hornady Ammo. This for the record is the Hornady Critical Duty 9mm luger +P 135 gr FlexLock ammo that I'm talking about.

Other ammo such as the Blazer Brass 9 mm 115 gr FMJ ammo works flawlessly in the Ruger and the Walthers.

Bottom line is that the Ruger LC9S Pro doesn't like the Hornady Critical Duty ammo.

 

[CoyoteHunter_]

coyote hunter - This may be a stupid question but if this is only happening when you chamber a round by hand could it be that you are riding the slide or not pulling it fully to the rear before releasing it to chamber a round. I think you are spot on to test & see if it happens when shooting a whole magazine of ammunition from the gun. Maybe try locking the slide-inserting the loaded magazine-the releasing the slide to see if it jams or not that way. Just to eliminate the possibility of human error. If that doesn't work I believe I would try a different brand of hollowpoint.

Mike J No it happened to me when I went to the range to day and shot the Ruger LC9S Pro with the Hornady Critical Duty ammo. So it happens when I'm actually shooting the gun. The slide release is very hard to release IMHO. Now my PPQ M2 9 mm 4" barrel model has a very long slide release and I shoot the gun all the time. Over 1200 round through it easily. Many more round than though the Ruger.

Today I went to the outdoor range for about 3 hours. I shot over 100 rounds. Two boxes of the Hornady Critical Duty 9 mm Luger +P 135 Gr FlexLock ammo. This ammo won't cycle properly in these little rugers 100% of the time. Now at times the full 7 rounds would fire smoothly without any problem. But the next time the second bullet would nose dive and fail to feed into the chambers. It's nose was getting stuck at the bottom of the feed ramp on the Ruger LC9S Pro.

I'd like some other's to test their Ruger LC9S Pro's with this ammo and see if they can repeat the problems I'm getting.

I went to the range today specifically to test this out with this pistol and this ammo.

My other pistol Walthers PPQ M2 9 mm 4" barrel cycles the Hornady Critical Duty fine.

So now when I carry my Ruger I'm going to load it with Blazer Brass 9 mm 115 gr FMJ bullets instead of the Hornady Critical Duty. I'd rather use the more powerful ammo but it it won't feed right then I'd be a fool to use that ammo in this gun.

Note: remember that I've polished the Ruger LC9S Pro's feed ramp twice since I got it. This is a manufacturing problem with the design of the feed ramp. I saw a little hump in the feed ramp near the bottom on my pistol. Perhaps that's what the FlexLock Heads are hanging up on. Either that or the very bottom of the Ruger LC9s Pro's feed ramp need to be looked at. It's thicker at the bottom of the Ruger's LC9S Pro's feed ramp than the PPQ's feed ramp.

And yes the ammo jams when I lock the slide back and insert a full magazine and release the slide. I'm pretty sure I'm not riding the slide and I pulled it back and let it go at the very end of the slide being pulled back as far as it would go. So the spring was fully compressed before I release the slide with my hand.

This is a particular bullet and feed ramp design miss match. IMHO. I'm no gun expert but this is what I have concluded after testing this for two days both at the house and at the rifle range. And this is not something that I like to see.
I really wanted to be able to use the Hornady Critical Duty ammo with this gun. But now I can't do that with good conscious.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I don't own an LC9 but I use the same Critical Duty in a few of my larger defense pistols. It feeds fine in those guns but they are larger guns with longer barrels that may benefit from a +P load. You won't get much of the advertised ballistics of that round out of a gun with a 3" barrel. I use the shorter in length and slightly slower Critical Defense rounds for my smaller and shorter barreled Kahr. The actual performance out of that gun is about the same from either one of those cartridges.

On another point, polishing a feed ramp with a Dremel tool is not a great idea, even just a polishing barrel will take a good amount of material away in a short time. This is even more of an issue around any radius or transition, the metal goes quickly and this is a problem with ramped barrels as the metal thickness at the beginning of the ramp to chamber is thin on almost all pistols.

There are times when some guns just don't like some ammo, this may be one of those times.

 

[DGW1949]

Good post Cheezewhiz.

DGW

 

[CoyoteHunter_]

Cheesewhiz are you familiar with the Dremel Tool with the variable speed adjustement and that runs on a battery? Have you ever used one of these Dremel tools with a soft cotton wheel that's use to with the polishing compound? The wheel is so soft that it would not made a scratch on the metal on the feed ramp. We are talking about steel vs cotton wheel. The polishing compound is very soft like a tooth paste material. Quite frankly after looking at the feed ramp of the Ruger LC9S Pro last night while cleaning the gun I could not tell if the polishing did anything to the feed ramp at all. And I doubt that there was any metal removed even if I were to look at it with a scanning electron microscope.

I'll try a box of the Critical Defense and give that a try. I don't really need the Critical Duty. The reason I bought it was because they didn't have the Critical Defense at the time and only had the Critical Duty stuff. I liked the way the shape of the bullet is. I figured it would help the bullet expand if I had to use it on a bad guy and that would knock the bad guy down better than a regular FMJ bullet that might pass right through the bad gun and not expand inside him. That the "FlexLock" bullet design. I didn't buy it for the +p feature. I got it because I like the design of the bullet head. I thought that might feed better in the gun. But I was wrong. I didn't account for the fact that the bullets in the magazine would nose dive and the tip of the bullet would get hung up at the very bottom of the feed ramp. And that's what happens with this ammo and my gun about 25% of the time now. I need a bullet that will work with my gun 100 % of the time. Any thing less than 99.5% of the time is unacceptable to me. So that's the only negative that I've found with the little Ruger gun. I still love the trigger and the way this gun shoots when it has reliable ammo loaded into it. I have spend extra money on this gun. I have bought new Alien Gear Kydex shells for this gun so that I can use it with all my Alien Gear Holsters. I bought three extra magazines for this gun too. Plus at least 5 different types of holsters for this gun. So I like the gun. I don't like the Hornady Critical Duty ammo with this gun. That was my point. That was my ONLY POINT of all these posts.

And just because your gun feed properly a couple of time does not make my gun feed this ammo better. My gun will feed it properly about 85% of the time but the other 25% of the time it fails to feed properly. I have to take the magazine out of the gun to clear the jammed up bullet and try to feed the next round into the chamber from the reinserted magazine.

I played with this all day Saturday for several hours testing my gun with this Critical Duty ammo. I am 100% decided to eliminate this ammo from my gun. I'll shoot it out of my Walther's PPQ M2 9 mm 4" barrel gun instead. It's $22 a box and the box only has 25 rounds. The Blazer Brass comes 50 in a box and it's about $14 a box. The round FMJ nose on the Blazer Brass when put in the 7 round Ruger Italian or USA made magazine won't depress the front of the nose of the top bullet downward as much as the Critical Duty ammo does.

Here is a test that you can try. Load up your 7 round Ruger LC9S Pro's magazine with 7 rounds of the Hornady Critical Duty. Now look at the top bullet in the magazine. Take your finger and put the nose of the top bullet down and see how if dips downward. Now do the same thing with 7 rounds of Blazer Brass 9 mm FMJ bullets and call post the results.
Perhap the plastic thing inside the magazine needs to be redesigned so that it won't tip downward at the front end when loaded with different shaped bullets. I noticed that the nose of the Critical Duty was more narrow at the tip than the blazer brass bullets. Add up 7 to 9 bullets stacked on top of each other and you get a lot more play with the Critical Duty bullets than the blazer brass bullets. And this happens with all three different magazines in my gun. The Italian made the USA made Ruger and the Mag Pro 9 round extended magazine too.

Back to the Dremel deal. I'm not sanding the feed ramp. If I put a polish on my truck paint the wheel I'm using would not remove any paint off the surface of my truck. It might run the polish on top of the paint's surface but it's not going to remove the paint. And it sure as Heck is not taking any of the metal off the surface of the feed ramp. You must thing I was using a sanding wheel or something harder. I used the mandrel with the screw head and the head screws into a small hole that's punched into the cotton wheel. The wheel is about 1/2" in diameter and only about 1/4" thick. And the hole in the middle of the cotton disk/wheel is about 1/16" in diameter. I'd get up and give you the part numbers but I'm not able to do that at this moment. But I can assure you that no metal is coming off the feed ramp. I'm not that stupid and would not endanger the feed ramp by doing something so stupid as sanding on the feed ramp. I said I was POLISHING it not sanding it. Steel comes in different types and strengths depending on how much carbon and other elements are put in the metal and how it's cooled and how hot it's melted. The hardness of steel is such that I would have to use a diamond tipped sanding block to take metal off the steel feed ramp. Cotton rubbing on steel will not take any metal off the surface of the steel. It would take a lot of cotton wheels to make a dent in the surface of my feed ramp even if I were using the polishing compound. And from what I can see and what I've read or didn't read the steel used on these guns is nothing special and I never have read anywhere yet that they do any thing special to the steel on these barrels. Now my Daniel Defense AR15's barrel is totally different as it the barrel and steel on my Walther PPQ. Those are all treated with special coatings to help protect the steel on the barrels of those two guns. And Daniel Defense makes it very clear that they to special treatments on their steel.

I don't own an LC9 but I use the same Critical Duty in a few of my larger defense pistols. It feeds fine in those guns but they are larger guns with longer barrels that may benefit from a +P load. You won't get much of the advertised ballistics of that round out of a gun with a 3" barrel. I use the shorter in length and slightly slower Critical Defense rounds for my smaller and shorter barreled Kahr. The actual performance out of that gun is about the same from either one of those cartridges.

On another point, polishing a feed ramp with a Dremel tool is not a great idea, even just a polishing barrel will take a good amount of material away in a short time. This is even more of an issue around any radius or transition, the metal goes quickly and this is a problem with ramped barrels as the metal thickness at the beginning of the ramp to chamber is thin on almost all pistols.

There are times when some guns just don't like some ammo, this may be one of those times.

 

[Mike J]

Sorry CoyoteHunter I thought it was just jamming when you chambered a round by racking the slide.

I agree with Cheese it might just be best to try a different defensive round.

 

[DGW1949]

Were it me, I'd quit beating my head against the wall and switch to a JHP which mimics the shape of a FMJ.
Remington's L9MM1B and Federal's 9BP come to mind here. They've been making 'em for years, and neither has ever given me a single feeding problem in any of the guns I've ever used them in.
No, they don't look fancy like the boutique-stuff does...but hey, they do what they're supposed to do, they do it time after time, and they do it for about half the price.

DGW

 

[CoyoteHunter_]

Sorry CoyoteHunter I thought it was just jamming when you chambered a round by racking the slide.

I agree with Cheese it might just be best to try a different defensive round.

Well it did it when I was locking the slide back and then inserting a full mag and then release the slide. AND it did it at the rifle range when I had a round chambered and a full 7 rounds in both the different types of Ruger 7 round mags.

I'm convinced that it's the ammo. So yes I'm going to find some other ammo that works better with this little gun. This guy shoots really nice and I love the trigger and the small size.

My only complain about this gun is that it's hard to get the mag to fall out as my hand is on the mag when I release the mag release button and the mag won't fall out unless I figure out a way of holding the gun without my hand touching the magazine. I'm not quite ready to shoot more than one magazine yet so it's not a big deal now. If I were younger and in a competition and had to eject the empty magazine quickly and load another mag in really fast I would be out of luck. But I'm 65 years old and not going to be going into any completions. I just shoot this gun for fun mostly at the range. And it's my personal protection gun at times.

I noticed that the bottom of the feed ramp is pretty thick on the LC9S Pro. I'm not sure but it looks a lot thicker metal at the very bottom of the feed ramp. So maybe that it why the head of the Hornady Critical Duty Ammo is jamming there.

I looked at the same area on my PPQ an the thickness of the metal at the bottom if it's feed ramp is about half as thick.

I'll just use the Critical Duty in my PPQ and then the Blazer Brass in my LC9S Pro until I can find some other defensive ammo.

Thanks for the feed back guys.

 

[5of7]

Coyotehunter..if the round is nose diving, it is likely that there is too much friction between the cartridge cases and/or even the feed lips of the magazine.

If it were me, I would use the dermal that you are using and polish the sharp edge of the feed lips of the magazine and if that doesn't do it, perhaps the magazine spring is too strong, or not strong enough to allow for a free and easy exit from magazine to chamber.

Just a thought, whaddya got to lose? 8)

 

[CoyoteHunter_]

I'll try to check that out. I did noticed that often the second round from the top was being pushed forward a 1/4 to 1/2" at times. The top round would chamber after I fired a round in the chamber and then if I pulled the Mag out the round left at the top of the magazine was not seated back properly like it was when I loaded the magazine. The top round was moved forward in the magazine. And this caused the bullets to not feed at times.

Now the round FMJ Blazer Brass 9 mm bullets don't nose down and FTF. They feed properly about 100 % of the time.

It was only the Hornady FlexLock type bullets who's heads are skinner than other bullets. This allows the 7 bullets in the magazine to be pushed downward if you put your finger on the head of the top bullet in the magazine. It think it's the design of the FlexLock Bullets heads. They are skinnier than the Rounder FMJ Blazer Brass Bullets.

The springs are OK. I've seem some of the plastic followers in my AR15 Magpul magaines that have longer plastic legs on the bottom side of the plastic follower (The part that side on top of the spring inside the magazine and which the bottom bullet in the magazine rest on. This extended legs help them stay straight up and down inside the Magazine and not tilt down at the front of the plasic follower or back ward at the rear of the plastic follower. These plastic legs on the bottom on the plastic follower help keep it stabilized better in the 223 Magpul 30 round magazine. So the .223 round feed better into the chamber of my AR15. These are longer bullet heads than the 9 mm bullets.

I'll go to the gun store and buy some other type of 9 mm ammo and test them out in my LC9S Pro pistol and see how the feed or not.

How can I tell if there is too much friction? I thinking that may not be the case as if there was too much friction the rounds would not slide forward so easily in the magazine. But maybe I'm not seeing what you are saying. Feed Lips of the Magazine? I think I know what you are talking about when you said Feed Lips. Those are at the very top side of the magazine that holds the bullets in place so they don't fly up and out of the magazine due to the spring pressure. I'm not sure if the springs are too tight or too lose. Not sure how I would tell or accurately measure the spring pressure. I do know that I have had a tendency to keep the spare magazines full of bullets all the time. Maybe having them loaded all the time when they are not being used has weaked the spring inside the magazines? I hope that's not the case as I'd hate to have to keep the spare mags empty all the time and load them up before using them each time. I carry a spare mag on my belt all the time and it's got all 7 bullets of the 9 mm rounds in it all the time.

I got some plastic mag holders that clip on my leather belt but the PPQ mags keep falling out. The PPQ 9 mm magazines hold 15 to 17 round in a double stack design and are longer than the plastic magazine holder. The want to fall out of the mag holder when I sit down and get up again. I noticed when I got into my truck I'd hear something heavy hitting the ground next to the drivers side door. I'd look down on the concrete of my driveway and see my PPQ spare magazine lying on the concrete just outside the drive's side door. I was thinking that I could increase the tension on the magazine holder but that's not possible from what I could see with this particular brand of magazine holder. These are the Blackhawk Double Stack Magcase Coyote Tan Colored ones. I have the same company's mag holder for my Ruger mags but they are single stack type and the Ruger 7 round mags stay in their Black Hawk Mag Cases better. Maybe the extra weight of the bullets cause the PPQ Mag to fall out more often. They are much heavier with 17 bullets vs 9 bullets for the Ruger Mags. All are 9 mm rounds. I got the mag holders for both guns at various gun shops in my area. Gander Mountain, Buck and Jakes and Academy Sporting Goods store. I got them at different times too. But the ones for my PPQ (last two mag holders) I ordered online as the local stores didn't have the one's I wanted in stock. I think I got those from Midway somewhere.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Single+Stack+Magazine+Holder&view=detailv2&&id=5CAB496FEA0A2EDBA750BB17C7FE353CECCDE292&selectedIndex=4&ccid=Yp7XhK%2b8&simid=608047046780258395&thid=OIP.M629ed784afbcceb808c9945ffd2de047o0&ajaxhist=0

Coyotehunter..if the round is nose diving, it is likely that there is too much friction between the cartridge cases and/or even the feed lips of the magazine.

If it were me, I would use the dermal that you are using and polish the sharp edge of the feed lips of the magazine and if that doesn't do it, perhaps the magazine spring is too strong, or not strong enough to allow for a free and easy exit from magazine to chamber.

Just a thought, whaddya got to lose? 8)