Is Prison for everyone?

[Bear Paw Jack]

I don’t think there’s an easy answer, but I’m pretty sure many of the countries on the initial statement take serious crimes far more seriously than we do. And they punish serious crimes far more harshly than we do. Americans have gotten weak. Far to many misdemeanor crimes are now considered felonies, I’m not even sure how affective the punishment is, but it does make it virtually impossible to get a job and and get back into society as a productive citizen. Now we have a swarm of desperate unproductive citizens that can’t get a job and don’t fit in.
At the same time, the seriously vicious criminals that are in prison are treated with kid gloves, and as Col Cooper says, criminals have no fear of the police, the judge or the jury, so it’s up to the victims, who the liberals who have evaded crime somehow, will end up punishing the victims who legally protected themselves. Victims are held in jail longer than many criminals.

 

[Jeepnik]

How often do prosecutors lie? Probably a whole heck of a lot less than defense attorneys. From actually sitting on juries I can tell you that defense attorneys come up with amazing ways to twist and fold the truth. The fact that attorneys, on both sides, not to mention judges, lie is likely the reason they don't have to be sworn in before they speak. I imagine if they did take an oath almost everyone of them would be convicted of perjury.

 

[Jeepnik]

The title of the thread is "Is prison right for everyone". The answer is of course no. Folks who live their lives right shouldn't go to prison. And contrary to popular belief, very, very few do. On the other hand, people who commit criminal acts do. It's a no brainer that a bunch of bleeding hearts have twisted until it's now viewed as wrong to incarcerate criminals.

 

[blume357]

actually to be totally correct the title of this is, "Is prison for everyone"
But you are 'right' Jeepnik, the intent was to discuss whether those convicted of crimes should be put in prison..
The issue I and some others have is what we have done over time to put more and more people in prison by making more and more laws...
One would think it would be simple... right is right and wrong is wrong but what I've learned while circling the sun is very little is black and white.
Take our grand and simple pro gun statement:
"When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns."
Most of my life I thought that meant that we honest law abiding citizens would be unarmed and the criminals would be the ones with guns.
Then one day I realized, and it seems to be confirmed here at times, when they finally get around to pretty much making any gun illegal to own We will be the outlaws.

 

[Busterswoodshop]

Just because someone has been in prison doesn't make them a bad person.
Some of the people I trust the most in my life are convicted felons.

Do prosecutors lie ?
Maybe not so much , but they will leave out evidence that doesn't help their story.
That is just as bad as a lie , and maybe more so.

 

[blume357]

there lies the problem... lawyers which are the perfect example of a necessary evil.... from the guy in the original link who I don't have a clue who he is or what he supposedly did... it seems he was absolutely sure he did nothing wrong or let's just say illegal, (don't know if this is true or not) but he was adamant that he was not going to plead guilty and accept a reduced sentence and it took 3 lawyers to convince him he was wrong... and his opinion from the video after going to prison was he was right.

 

[xTopGun]

Just because someone has been in prison doesn't make them a bad person.
Some of the people I trust the most in my life are convicted felons.

Do prosecutors lie ?
Maybe not so much , but they will leave out evidence that doesn't help their story.
That is just as bad as a lie , and maybe more so.

Uhmmm, "Omission" is a lie, and in a court of law when done by a prosecutor could potentially be a crime but is usually handed as Professional Misconduct .....

 

[xTopGun]

actually to be totally correct the title of this is, "Is prison for everyone"
But you are 'right' Jeepnik, the intent was to discuss whether those convicted of crimes should be put in prison..
The issue I and some others have is what we have done over time to put more and more people in prison by making more and more laws...
One would think it would be simple... right is right and wrong is wrong but what I've learned while circling the sun is very little is black and white.
Take our grand and simple pro gun statement:
"When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns."
Most of my life I thought that meant that we honest law abiding citizens would be unarmed and the criminals would be the ones with guns.
Then one day I realized, and it seems to be confirmed here at times, when they finally get around to pretty much making any gun illegal to own We will be the outlaws.

It's been argued for centuries that the purpose of laws is just to control the masses, which I tend to agree, since criminal have never cared or really feared the law . . . . .

 

[Yaworski]

I'm wondering how a simple government employee affords eleven high powered attornies.

 

[Busterswoodshop]

Uhmmm, "Omission" is a lie, and in a court of law when done by a prosecutor could potentially be a crime but is usually handing as Professional Misconduct .....

I know it is illegal , they know it too , yet some still do it.
A conviction is more important to lots of them , than the truth is.
Especially if they strive for a political career.

 

[Paul B]

there lies the problem... lawyers which are the perfect example of a necessary evil.... from the guy in the original link who I don't have a clue who he is or what he supposedly did... it seems he was absolutely sure he did nothing wrong or let's just say illegal, (don't know if this is true or not) but he was adamant that he was not going to plead guilty and accept a reduced sentence and it took 3 lawyers to convince him he was wrong... and his opinion from the video after going to prison was he was right.

Well. the way the laws are set up you need an attorney. Laws are written in an somewhat archaic version of the English language. You may understand what the words mean but in legalize it may mean something different.

Money talks. If you have the money you can hire all the lawyers you want. Case in point, when my friend got into trouble the lawyer wanted $5.000 up front before he lifted a finger. When my friend said he wanted to fight the shyster asked for $100,000 up front. No way my friend or most of us can afford that kind of help. So the alternative is cop a plea and hope for the best. My friend got lucky and really light sentence. It could have been one ell of a lot worse but this does kind of explain why so many criminal cases are settled by plea bargaining. I guess it does lighten the court's load and the lawyer doesn't have to work as hard. A win win situation for everyone except the oor dude on trial.
PJ

 

[blume357]

Speaking of lawyers and I firmly believe a true joke.
the billboard industry would be out of business if lawyers still could not advertise.
I know many of us here are old enough to remember when it was unethical for a lawyer or a doctor to advertise.
I guess it was never 'illegal' just considered unethical and you could not do it and have the proper credentials as in be part of the bar or such.

 

[Busterswoodshop]

A good lawyer doesn't need to advertise.

 

[gnappi]

Everyone is either already locked up, or are waiting in line for a vacancy.

I was born in New York too!

 

[NC FNS]

Education plays a role here. Someone commits a crime, and the consequences are minimal, then they’ve been taught something. On the other hand, look at the murder case in Texas where the one kid stabbed and killed another. He was taught something by getting a heavy sentence, but a lot of his "supporters" that were protesting have been taught to expect a different outcome.

 

[protoolman]

How often do prosecutors lie? Probably a whole heck of a lot less than defense attorneys. From actually sitting on juries I can tell you that defense attorneys come up with amazing ways to twist and fold the truth. The fact that attorneys, on both sides, not to mention judges, lie is likely the reason they don't have to be sworn in before they speak. I imagine if they did take an oath almost everyone of them would be convicted of perjury.

If you think about it, prosecutors don't lie because they present facts, they're supposed to decline prosecution if there is not enough facts to convince them of the defendants guilt. On the other hand the defense attorney is supposed to convince you that literally anything else is what happened so they have to be creative liars pretty much if they're doing their job.

 

[Yaworski]

If you think about it, prosecutors don't lie because they present facts

However, they can misrepresent those facts.

 

[MaxMan]

Just my two cents.
I think a group of "Experts", {law enforcement, lawyers,judges, mental health professionals, etc.) should come together and come up with a minimum and maximum sentence for every felony crime. For your first felony conviction you serve the minimum sentence for that felony. Second conviction of a felony you serve the maximum sentence for that felony. Third conviction of a felony you are executed within six months of conviction. Any and all appeals must be resolved within that six months.

I similar system for misdemeanors. After a specific number of misdemeanors they count as a felony. After three felonies see above.

Why do we want people that can't conform to civilized society. They should be removed for the good of society.

I worked as a corrections officer for about 1 1/2 years and saw the type of people we are paying to keep alive just so they can go on to commit more crimes when they are released. I hate the whole idea of the taxpayers having to pay to keep some person locked up for decades until they die. They get great healthcare, free food, free education, free entertainment and have more "Rights" than most of the rest of us do.

Most inmates, with the exception of freedom to leave the prison, are treated much better than our homeless veterans.

Why punish the taxpayers.

You can put many illegal s in front of the vets too.

 

[Fox Mike]

I just posted in the Gun Control/Politics section about a question on charges. Fits right into this discussion.

 

[blume357]

I'm not sure and I am sure it is different in a court room than what we see on TV. but I do not think any lawyer prosecution or defense is allowed to lie in court... they are both technically working for the court and justice system...

 

[xTopGun]

I'm not sure and I am sure it is different in a court room than what we see on TV. but I do not think any lawyer prosecution or defense is allowed to lie in court... they are both technically working for the court and justice system...

uhmmm, how does that old say'n go - - - "if you ain't lying you ain't trying..." hmmmm... a lot of truth right there

 

[Buckeye Bill]

Worked maximum security through medium over 20 years. While in the military, I traveled to Asian countries and visited some prisons that were in my AO. Unofficial visit because I asked.
I have spent many years in the prison system but I was able to leave at the end of my shift.
Humans can get used to anything but prison is special. The inmates run prisons. Some people are able to conform and survive while others are victims of the system.

I will never go to prison after what I seen. Prison is terrible. Now, for some, their life is or was so bad, prison is survivable. Membership in some type protective group is required. Follow their rules and put in some work from time to time. Put in some work, stab a deserving inmate that the gang decided needs stabbing. Yes, you will catch a case and more time but you must be of value to your gang.

Stab / slash someone or have your family outside send protection money.

So, don’t go to prison.

Bill

 

[xTopGun]

actually I'm reconsidering my position... maybe every young kid needs to experience the "Scared Straight" program and have a tour of a prison, but that would shock the sensibilities of all the helicopter parents, soccer mom's and such . . . . .

 

[Paul B]

"
Speaking of lawyers and I firmly believe a true joke.
the billboard industry would be out of business if lawyers still could not advertise."

Bill boards? Don't make me laugh. I think every damn city bus is plastered with lawyer ad signs. Here they have the buses and billboards cornered.
PJ

 

[blume357]

I'm sure it's different here but I remember a Rumpold of the Bailey episode where his client was fixing to tell him she was guilty of something and he stopped her and explained that if she did then he was required to plead her guilty in court.... now they *Britain" do or did have a different system.. . in that the person charged had a lawyer that they then hired what Rumpold was (a queens council or such) to represent them in court... (the guys with the wigs)

 

[ex13F]

For anyone who would harm a child, no prison.

 

[Buckeye Bill]

I can attest that rapist, child molesters, rats are not allowed to be on a yard with general population inmates. There is always a “green light” on those heinous crimes to punish the perpetrator. As I recall, one of the common methods was to take a razor a toothbrush, and slash the assailant right across the face. For the rest of this inmates time in prison, the slash across the face was the mark of a rapist child Lester for rat. You see the slash and you know what you’re working with. No quarter.

Bill

 

[Jeepnik]

I'm not sure and I am sure it is different in a court room than what we see on TV. but I do not think any lawyer prosecution or defense is allowed to lie in court... they are both technically working for the court and justice system...

Oh my, and not to insult, but how naive. Just one example, I watched a defense attorney bald faced claim his clients were innocent or a home burglary. He had coached the two defendants and their girl friends to tell the exact same story about where they were down to the cherry cokes and chili fries. This even though an elderly lady clearly identified the thieves. The defense attorney pounced and asked how she could be sure it was them. She pointed at one and said she had known him since he was born and the other since he was a baby.

I cold tell you about the drug dealer, hit and run driver, etc. but you get the point.