inherited S&W

[toysoldier]

I know, wrong brand, but I'm not a member of a S&W forum, and there seem to be some pretty knowledgeable guys here.

Today, my 91-year-old uncle (Pearl Harbor survivor) gave me a revolver that was used by his wife's adoptive father. His father-in-law retired from a factory job, then worked as a Pinkerton guard. The revolver is clearly a S&W Military & Police. It's blued, 4" tapered barrel marked SMITH & WESSON on the left, .38 S.W. SPECIAL CTG. on the right. Serial number is on the butt, S 8155xx , also on the cylinder. Under the crane is 3007.2. It is a 4-screw with half-moon sight. It appears to have been drilled for a lanyard loop, but filled in at the factory.

This revolver is 90%+!

There is a little holster wear on the muzzle, and a tiny bit on the frame points. It wears a set of aftermarket yellow solid plastic grips, with finger grooves for a right-handed shooter. I don't think it has had a box of shells run through it.

Information online indicates a pre- late 60's manufacture date. Can anyone pin it down a little closer? A cousin has geneology information on the old boy, so I may be able to pin down the purchase date.

Also, it came with a Brauer Bros. Mfg. H/9 holster and a 40" belt (fits the retiree/guard picture) with 12 cartridge loops, a key clip, and a nightstick ring.

And yes, I will post pictures, if I can navigate the digital labyrinth.

 

[Cholo]

Are you sure it's a 4 screw and not a 5 screw? The S prefix puts it at about '45/'46, a 5 screw. I have one like it from about '47 with the S prefix. The 4th screw was eliminated around '61. The 5th screw in a 5 screw is the upper right side plate screw next to the hammer. If it doesn't have the 5th screw, I'll do some more checking. I have a feeling your gun is just a bit older than you think :wink:

 

[tulsamal]

So if I'm reading you right, you are saying you have a pre-Model 10, post war. After the war ended in 1945, they started putting an S at the front of the serial number. So that is the beginning of the series in 1945, S811120. Those went until 1948 and ended at S999999. Then they switched to a C prefix. So as Cholo said, should be made in 45.

Gregg

 

[hittman]

I think this one is what they call the M&P 4th Change. It dates to June, 1933, s/n 623xxx.

If you post a pic I will gladly forward it to a couple of local S&W collectors. Also, the SCSW is a book you'd enjoy.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Yes, the serial number range for 1945-1948 was S811338 - S999999. You can interpolate when in that range your pistol was made. If the hole for the lanyard loop was filled in, it was probably originally meant to be a Victory Model. After WWII some left over Victory Model frames had their lanyard holes filled in. I used to have one.

It is most likely a 5 screw, not 4. The five screws of a 5 screw include four frame screws and one screw in front of the trigger guard housing the plunger and spring that operate the cylinder stop. This screw was eliminated across all lines of K and N frame S&W revolvers in 1962 , creating for a short time the four screw Smiths. The only other four screw S&W was the Model 1899, only produced from 1899 - 1902.

The number under the cylinder crane is an assembly number, it means nothing.

 

[toysoldier]

Okay, I thought it was sideplate screws that were counted. Three screws visible, one under the grip, with an S over it, and one in front of the trigger guard. Square butt. A '45 date would go with the drilled & filled lanyard hole. Thanks, guys. I'll do my best to add a photo today or tomorrow.

 

[sfhogman]

You can request a letter of authenticity from Smith and Wesson for $50.00. I've done it twice and both times I was glad I did.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757825_-1_757814_757812_image

Jeff

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

The other thing to be aware of is that Serial Numbers do not actually indicate exactly when a S&W was made. S&W did not keep good records of when certain guns were made. They did keep excellent records of when guns were shipped. If you were to letter that gun, Roy Jinks, the official S&W historian can only provide you with information about when the gun shipped, not when it was made. Many times a frame would be forged and stamped for SN, then put into storage until it was needed for manufacture.

S&W SNs are tricky things.

 

[rugerguy]

good info above , on that being a 'post war' M&P...it would depend on the location of the "filled in " lanyard hole in regards to serial number placement...some were filled in by the factory after the war, some at the local level (armorer, department gunsmith, etc) quite commonly done.we recently sold one a little after your number and it was a 1946 vintage gun, in the gold/blue lettered box, and was a 5 inch barrel..NICE guns
the one rear screw is under the grips so you cannot see it.............so should be a 5 screw with those numbers.
Many banks, security agencies, government (defense)contractors used these guns for the security & police forces.

 

[Cholo]

Driftwood's right in that they only made 4 screws for 6-7 years. I recently purchased a pristine M-17 4 screw from '60, even have the original bill of sale FWIW: The S&W book to buy is: "Standard Catalog of Smith&Wesson by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas". I believe I bought it on Amazon. I wish I knew the Colt book to buy. That proofhouse website has been useless to me :?

PS: rugerguy, mine is a 5" too.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Actually, I just checked, and I got it wrong. S&W eliminated the screw at the top of the sideplate, near the hammer, in 1955. That is when the 'four screw' revolvers were created. Then in 1962 they eliminated the screw in front of the trigger guard, creating the 'three screw' design which is still being produced.

Here is a photo of my Model 27. Notice there is no screw up by the hammer, but if you look carefully you can see the screw in front of the trigger guard. This is the only Four Screw Smith I own at this time.

Well, actually, I do have this Model 1899. S&W collectors sometimes call it the pre-4 screw 4 screw because it only had four screws. The screw in front of the trigger guard was introduced in 1902.

Here is a typical 5 Screw Smith. The service grips are short enough to reveal the screw at the corner of the frame. Modern Three Screw Smiths still have a sideplate screw there, but the grips usually hide it.

 

[Hondo44]

Okay, I thought it was sideplate screws that were counted. Three screws visible, one under the grip, with an S over it, and one in front of the trigger guard. Square butt. A '45 date would go with the drilled & filled lanyard hole. Thanks, guys. I'll do my best to add a photo today or tomorrow.

The S over the sideplate screw under the grip is a giveaway and additional evidence to the plugged lanyard ring Driftwood mentioned that you have a post war M&P made from an excess wartime inventory Victory model frame. When the government sent them all back to Smith after a sailer was killed by a Victory model that someone dropped, S&W retrofitted thousands of them with their improved hammer block safety and stamped all major parts with an S and returned them to Uncle Sam. All Post war Smiths had the improved safety with few exceptions.

 

[toysoldier]

I can't figure out how to enlarge the pictures, so here's just a couple of thumbnails:

 

[k22fan]

After they corrected each other, all the information you got above looks right to me. Your relative's revolver is a transitional pre-model 10, otherwise described as a long action M&P made after S&W introduced their short action but while they were still using up old parts. Higher condition S&W transitionals like yours fetch a 20-25% premium over similar short action revolvers made later in the 1940s. My guess is it originally wore checkered walnut magna stocks shaped similar to the stocks on it but without finger grooves. A set of vintage magnas would look correct to collectors, but those probably were the stocks it wore when your relative carried it for Pinkertons, so I’d leave it as is for a better connection to part of his life.

 

[k22fan]

I think this one is what they call the M&P 4th Change. It dates to June, 1933, s/n 623xxx.

I have a 6" M&P that is a little older than the nickeled 4" one in your picture. It has mother of pearl stocks similiar to yours except they are square butt. Did you ever look into the possibility that your stocks might have been made by S&W? If you did, how do you tell?

 

[Hondo44]

I have a 6" M&P that is a little older than the nickeled 4" one in your picture. It has mother of pearl stocks similiar to yours except they are square butt. Did you ever look into the possibility that your stocks might have been made by S&W? If you did, how do you tell?

On the inside of the early pre war boxes S&W had a note that read in affect; only buy factory pearl grips for best quality and they can be identified by the S&W medallions. In that period of 1929 to 1940 the pearls would have had Flat chrome plated brass S&W medallions.
Pre 1920 they would have the gold plated brass medallions shown below.

 

[toysoldier]

I got it out to the range today, and with WWB ammo, it shot nice, tight groups, with sights right on. Very nice single- and double-action. I'm going to offer it to my son, who has expressed interest in having a home defense gun that both he and his wife could use. I can't think of a better use for this lovely old gun.

 

[Hondo44]

I couldn't agree more!