How high is the risk?

[vito]

My oldest son, in his early 50's, has no interest in guns and sadly to admit, is a liberal (possibly even a "progressive"). The other evening during a discussion he asked me if in the years that I have been carrying concealed if I have ever had to fire my gun for defense. I said to him "You know that you would have known about it if I ever had to do that", to which he replied, "that's what I thought, and it made me wonder if nothing has happened so far, isn't it likely that nothing will happen in the future, and that carrying a gun is just a bit paranoid". Our conversation continued, but it made me think again about how high a risk am I really at? I think the risk is certainly high enough that I try never to leave the house unarmed, and while armed, to always be as situationally aware as I can be.

Part of my thinking has to do with what unfortunately is treated almost as an insignificant crime by prosecutors, a simple assault. Is an assault really simple when the victim is a senior citizen? When the idiot prosecutors in the Rittenhouse trial tried to convince the jury that Rittenhouse's reaction of shooting in self defense was inappropriate, saying "everyone has to take a beating sometime" it made me think that with my heart condition, missing one kidney, and at age 78, would "taking a beating" be a death sentence for me? And if not a death sentence, its likely that I would suffer consequences for the rest of my life. Yet prosecutors, and the media, treat assault, even aggravated assault as if its a fairly minor crime. How often do thugs get charged with aggravated assault when they should be charged with attempted murder, and then the aggravated assault is reduced to some lesser offense in return for a guilty plea. And then society sees what is treated as a relatively minor issue despite the victim suffering for the remainder of their days.

So in my mind the risk is higher for myself than it might be for a young, healthy individual, and that being prepared to defend myself with my gun is totally prudent and reasonable. I'd much rather face a prosecutor someday who will claim that my shooting an assailant for a "simple beating" was not justified than to be living a diminished life of brain damage or other infirmity because I was unable to defend against the attack.

 

[redhawker]

I think if you check statistics you will find that even most cops don't get into a shooting situation throughout a 30-year career. But, it's the old often heard adage I go by, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. In my case, due to spine issues, a "simple beating" would have a good chance of confining me to a wheelchair for my remaining years so yeah, I'd rather have it and not need it...I certainly hope that I never do need it though.

 

[37fed]

Does your son have a fire extinguisher in his house? Ever used it? What a waste of closet space.

I was manager of a govt building for 23 years. 6 fire extinguishers. Never used. Yet state law required them be there, inspected monthly. Just in case.

 

[vito]

Does your son have a fire extinguisher in his house? Ever used it? What a waste of closet space.

Your comment made me laugh! I told him that exact thing during our discussion. I more or less ended the conversation with our discussion about at least having a firearm in the house, even if not carried. I asked him if he heard the sound of a door or window being kicked in at 3 AM, would he prefer to hope the cheap lock on the bedroom door holds, and that baseball bat will be enough, or would he feel better with a firearm in his hand in case the intruder tries to enter the bedroom where he and wife are in bed? He wouldn't answer the question, saying he has read that having a gun in the home, any gun, increases the risk, etc, etc. At that point I just said "Never mind".

 

[Kevin]

He wouldn't answer the question, saying he has read that having a gun in the home, any gun, increases the risk, etc, etc.

Maybe I missed it, but increases what risk?

I do sort of agree with your son, how likely are you to be in a situation where you would need a gun? I’m betting not very likely. But, by all means, carry one anyway.

And, as you say, being situationally aware, and cognizant of what’s going on around you is probably enough to keep you from needing the use of a gun.

 

[Paul B]

All one has to take into account is to have been and done that just once in their life to be a believer. All I will add is when the Vigaro hit the Mixmaster, I was glad there was a gun in the car. Up to that point, my late wife always complained about the gun in the car. After that incident, she said she would never complain about me carrying a gun. I'm also very thankful that I only had to show it and not pull the trigger. It did come very close to me having to do so. Just a case of mistaken identity that could have become fatal.
So how high is the risk? Probably quite low at least until stuff decides to happen.
Paul B.

 

[GunnyGene]

I think if you check statistics you will find that even most cops don't get into a shooting situation throughout a 30-year career. But, it's the old often heard adage I go by, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. In my case, due to spine issues, a "simple beating" would have a good chance of confining me to a wheelchair for my remaining years so yeah, I'd rather have it and not need it...I certainly hope that I never do need it though.

Statistics don't apply to individuals, only to large groups of people.

 

[Dave P.]

Kind of a timely subject. Saturday afternoon I'd went to an O'Reilly's auto parts store to grab a couple of small things.
Going in, what I'd describe as a street person loudly and a bit aggressively ask me for money, I just said "no" pretty mildly and walked around him.
Coming out he tried again, this time I told him ****off. It must have set him off as he grabbed my coat as I was passing him. I struck his hand away and he grabbed me again, tried to punch me, short scuffle...end result I ended up hitting him with a really solid elbow strike in the face. He went down hard and stiffened up some then went limp. Cashier came out said she'd already called 911 and had them on the phone so I had her call an ambulance also
because his face was bleeding heavily. He came to but didn't get up was just laying on the ground cursing and crying. Ambulance shows up and wouldn't touch him till the cops checked him. They finally got there, both local township and a female Michigan state trooper. Told the trooper I was carrying and had a permit. She wanted the story and my ID and CPL, didn't want to take the LCP, just asked where I was carrying.
Turns out the guy is a druggie and drunk with plenty of minor issues well known to the township cops. Township cops talking to him telling him he's lucky I didn't just shoot his ass and that sooner or later somebody is going to.
I've only been in a couple of public confrontations in my life ( hockey fights don't count ) and never felt I'd have to shoot somebody in daily life. We had a break in at our business many years ago where I got shot at and fired back not so much to hit who shot at me but basically kill their truck. At the time I was hiding behind a dumpster armed with a M1 carbine and they were about 30 yards away with a handgun in the dark.
Back to the drunk...he had several outstanding warrants, was going to the hospital then jail. Trooper figures he's out in a few days and won't end up back in jail till the next time. I got a call today from the township detective asking if I wanted to do a complaint, talking with him, I decided it wasn't worth the effort. He did say the store video matched up to the officer's reports, so I had no issues.
In spite of him being the aggressor I feel bad about hurting him, sounds stupid but I really do. I'd hate to ever need to shoot somebody.
Was real happy to see him start to wake up, though I do hope his face hurts worse than my right elbow and shoulder.

 

[Dan in MI]

Add to the list for your SiL house insurance. You don't use it, why buy it?

Then ask how he would have liked being the at movies in Denver on a certain night, or McDonald's in Cali, how about Luby's in TX? There are hundreds if not thousands of occurrences where the need was present.

Yes, there millions (billions) where it isn't, but the situation isn't advertised ahead of time like a Black Friday sale, so you have to have your insurance. In whatever form makes you comfortable.

As far as the risk at home. He needs to dig deep into the data on that tired old myth. Take out the suicides, domestic murders, etc and that number drops well below the toilet and even the septic tank.

 

[Selena]

I think if you check statistics you will find that even most cops don't get into a shooting situation throughout a 30-year career. But, it's the old often heard adage I go by, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. In my case, due to spine issues, a "simple beating" would have a good chance of confining me to a wheelchair for my remaining years so yeah, I'd rather have it and not need it...I certainly hope that I never do need it though.

OK, the stats for violent crime here is 2.95 per 1,000. That means every year 32 and a half people will be the victim of a violent crime. Now, you are committing a violent crime what are the statistics of choosing a home care nurse with PMS and a .38 Super or the one with sweetness and light and nothing else save the key(s) to the lock box(es) with liquid morphine for the hospice patients?

 

[37fed]

Everything now is about positive attitude, feeling good about yourself. Tell your son you have a more positive attitude and feel more confident packing a handgun. Does he not want dad to feel warm and fuzzy each day as you drive to Walgreens?

 

[blume357]

I hear that stupid thing about how it is dangerous to have a gun in the house... i guess from a convoluted way of thinking... if there is not gun and one is never needed then it proves the negative.... but then I would say that if you don't own a car and never drive then you are much less likely to ever cause an automobile accident..... the really odd ball thing is your son and I would probably get along fine 'politically'... but even with my what many of y'all would consider my liberal leanings... here is my answer which most have heard before.... from my late father... who had been there and seen the tiger...
"Son just about the absolute worse thing you can do in this life is kill a man.... in fact there is only one thing worse.... to have the need and not the means." I pray I will never have the need... but the one thing I fear more than anything else is having the need and not the means....

 

[toysoldier]

Makes as much sense as noting all the police in the street for a fellow officer's funeral, and saying that if they aren't needed on patrol that day, are they needed any day?
Most military pilots manage to return to base. Do they really need ejection seats?

 

[lipofsky]

I spent 24 years in the Navy working the flight deck of a carrier and then 8000 hrs flying in the P-3 patrol Aircraft, aboard ship and in the plane I always had a survival vest on. I was trained to quickly don and use a parachute. So now that I am retired I think back that Even though I never had to us any of that training or the gear, I am glad that I had the training and the gear. so as then and as today, I have it but hope I never need it.

 

[caryc]

Does your son have a fire extinguisher in his house? Ever used it? What a waste of closet space.

Your comment made me laugh! I told him that exact thing during our discussion. I more or less ended the conversation with our discussion about at least having a firearm in the house, even if not carried. I asked him if he heard the sound of a door or window being kicked in at 3 AM, would he prefer to hope the cheap lock on the bedroom door holds, and that baseball bat will be enough, or would he feel better with a firearm in his hand in case the intruder tries to enter the bedroom where he and wife are in bed? He wouldn't answer the question, saying he has read that having a gun in the home, any gun, increases the risk, etc, etc. At that point I just said "Never mind".

It increases the risk that the home owner may come out on the better side of a home invasion. I like those odds.

 

[NewRuger41]

You could ask your son if he locks his car doors when he (and his familuy?) is out driving. If he dies, follow up wirh have you ever been robbed or car jacked?

You could ask your son if he locks his doors in his residence. If he does, ask him why if he's never had an intruder.

The analogies are near limitless.

You do you, Sir, and allow your son to do him. If your moral compass and beliefs put a sidearm on you, your son can accept it or not, but he should respect your choice as you respect his (to not carry).

 

[toysoldier]

My son and I have our political differences, but a few years ago, he mentioned that he would like to have a gun to keep in his house. I passed along a S&W .38 that my uncle's father-in-law, a security guard, bought right after WWII. That makes the 4th generation to have it: 76 years of being loaded and never harmed anyone.

 

[Fox Mike]

Unfortunately I am unable to carry in my home State but do whenever I go outside it where I am legal. At nearly 85 I have been in two situations where I would have like to have been armed. I don't honestly know if it would have changed anything but I would have truly felt safer.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

Vito, the problem is your son isn't talking facts, he's talking opinions and feelings. I would encourage getting a book or two by John Lott. "John R Lott is a world-recognized expert on guns and crime and the author of a number of books including “More Guns, Less Crime” and his latest “The War On Guns: Arming Yourself Against Gun Control Lies”. John Richard Lott, Jr. is an American economist, political commentator, and gun rights advocate."

The other truth is, that people use their firearm over 2 million times a year to protect themselves in this country. If in fact there's no risk how could this be happening?

In addition, there's a LOT of difference in how criminals look at a 50 year old and a 78 year old. Apples and oranges for sure.

 

[jgt]

John Lott was anti-gun, but to his credit he could not ignore the facts when he researched the subject. Now there is no better advocate out there.

 

[Fox Mike]

Just ordered those two books. Will be interesting to see what is said.

 

[contender]

Lots of good, solid thoughts in this thread.

Sadly,, some people fail to accept certain facts,, & believe misguided thoughts.

As noted above,, we can come up with all forms of reasons as to why keep a firearm. Too many to list them all here.

I like to think with the following mindset; "Be Prepared." The BSA motto I live my life by. Or, another thought; "Prepare for war,, & pray for peace."

We humans do all kinds of things to prepare for the unexpected, or possibly bad things. Seat belts, fire extinguishers, insurance, locks on doors, child car seats, childproof locks or pill bottle caps, gloves on our hands when we work, masks on our face (currently), shots in our bodies to prevent diseases, etc. etc. etc.
To many of us,, a firearm is just a form of insurance for the (gosh forbid,) need to defend oneself or family against potential harm or death by a bad element of society.

And his thought process of a "gun in the home can increase the likelihood of a family member getting shot" is also misguided. In the home there are also many other things that hurt people. Knives in the kitchen, tools in the garage, electricity (think kids & an outlet with a metal toy,) chest of drawers falling on kids, space heaters, overloaded electrical outlets, stairs, slippery walkways, gas cans in a garage, are but a few things that "might" cause injury or death to people.

Hopefully, you can present your son with common sense thoughts like the many things in this thread to give him things to think about. Good luck!

 

[Dave P.]

And his thought process of a "gun in the home can increase the likelihood of a family member getting shot" is also misguided.
Hopefully, you can present your son with common sense thoughts like the many things in this thread to give him things to think about. Good luck!

While I understand you're point, I'd technically argue that a gun in the house does increase the odds of a family member being shot.
First because if it's not there it can't happen. Second thought is I'd bet the "household gun" has been used to kill way more household members than home invaders. We need to admit that there are plenty of people out there that really should not own guns. Our country for the most part allows us to decide for ourselves on the choice. History and daily news shows us many made the wrong choice and in moments of human ugliness, weakness or just total stupidity, manage to kill themselves or others close to them.
Guns and kids take it to a whole different level. I could go on a profanity filled rant about my thoughts when I hear of kids shooting themselves or another kid with somebody's gun they found.
A gun is about the most unforgiving tool ever built and some people are not up to the responsibility.

 

[ronto]

The vast majority of people are good, law abiding citizens. I carry for that 1% that aren't.

 

[314Chevy]

I carry depending on where I am going. If I am going golfing with friends my 380 stays home, if I am going to an area that has a higher degree of risk I carry. Keep in mind criminals go after the weak so in all likelihood when we carry we feel more confident and this confidence will show. We live in a dangerous world and CCW helps us with our "safe space".

 

[pie]

The #1 source for accidents (and some serious) in the home are ladders. Ask your son if he owns any ladders.

 

[NewRuger41]

https://www.safewise.com/blog/household-accidents/

Good information on most common accidents at home. Firearn injury is not in the top 5.

 

[NewRuger41]

While I understand you're point, I'd technically argue that a gun in the house does increase the odds of a family member being shot.
First because if it's not there it can't happen. Second thought is I'd bet the "household gun" has been used to kill way more household members than home invaders. We need to admit that there are plenty of people out there that really should not own guns. Our country for the most part allows us to decide for ourselves on the choice. History and daily news shows us many made the wrong choice and in moments of human ugliness, weakness or just total stupidity, manage to kill themselves or others close to them.
Guns and kids take it to a whole different level. I could go on a profanity filled rant about my thoughts when I hear of kids shooting themselves or another kid with somebody's gun they found.
A gun is about the most unforgiving tool ever built and some people are not up to the responsibility.

As you stated of course a firearm in a residence increases the odds of a persin being shot ... simply by virtue of its existence within the residence. No firearm, no shot risk. Firearn, shot risk.

Remember, many instruments can be misused, including firearms, knives, automobiles, etc. And many non-instruments such as medication, chemicals, linens, hoses, etc.

So while I understand the mere existence of a firearm poses a greater finality / serious injury, I can't ignore every other possible way to be injured or killed within a home, as well as the fact that good parenting can prevent a heck of a lot of things from ever happening. Be it automobiles, firearms, drugs, etc.

All of my children have shot pork shoulders and melons to see first hand the damage inflicted by a projectile traveling at super fast velocities. They have seen photos and videos of bullet wounds and spoke with gunshot victims. And they know and understand our rules about firearms, and the consequences of not following the rules. My oldest step daughter at age 11 touched a bolt of one instrument that was broken down for cleaning without asking me first as I sat there and immediately she sat and wrote 100 times "I will not touch a firearm nor any part of a firearm without first asking an adult". She is 18 now and has never made that same mistake again. Outside of our home, outside of our presence, who knows, right? But my belief is that through good education comes understanding and I am confident my crew aren't playing with their friends' parents' firearms, etc. Showing off to friends their firearm knowledge or marksmanship ... my kids would rather not face my consequences of such stupidity. Sadly I am certain in many households kids are not parented well and ledt to their own whims.

 

[Colonialgirl]

I'm 80 years old and 19 days from turning 81; I'm an old lady out shopping, etc, there is NO WAY I would ever go out unarmed and I have had a permit and carried for 18 years now. I even carry when I attend church sitting in the back corner pew far away from the entry way. I was taught at a VERY young age to NOT touch any of the rifles and other weapons owned by Dad, Uncles and Grandfathers because they were ALL loaded even hanging in the gun rack. NEVER had a family member shot by a firearm in the home.
I was taught how to shoot and handle a firearm by the same group named above.
My kids grew up with firearms in the home and none of them have ever been shot.

 

[Dave P.]

So while I understand the mere existence of a firearm poses a greater finality / serious injury, I can't ignore every other possible way to be injured or killed within a home, as well as the fact that good parenting can prevent a heck of a lot of things from ever happening. Be it automobiles, firearms, drugs, etc.

All of my children have shot pork shoulders and melons to see first hand the damage inflicted by a projectile traveling at super fast velocities. They have seen photos and videos of bullet wounds and spoke with gunshot victims. And they know and understand our rules about firearms, and the consequences of not following the rules. My oldest step daughter at age 11 touched a bolt of one instrument that was broken down for cleaning without asking me first as I sat there and immediately she sat and wrote 100 times "I will not touch a firearm nor any part of a firearm without first asking an adult". She is 18 now and has never made that same mistake again. Outside of our home, outside of our presence, who knows, right? But my belief is that through good education comes understanding and I am confident my crew aren't playing with their friends' parents' firearms, etc. Showing off to friends their firearm knowledge or marksmanship ... my kids would rather not face my consequences of such stupidity. Sadly I am certain in many households kids are not parented well and ledt to their own whims.

That kind of speaks to my main point. Many people are not responsible enough to be gun owners, some might be perceptive enough to recognize this and rightly choose not to have one. If they don't trust themselves and family members enough, maybe a sharp stick is their best bet.