Hot vaquero

[eveled]

I see the same cleaning marks that you do, but how can you tell they didn't get there after the fire? It looks like it was cleaned after a fire to me. The weak springs tell the story. The sight could have been soldered back on after the fire too.

Lots of people making assumptions, without knowing the story. We don't even know the condition before the fire. Maybe it already had those pits.

If you found it after the fire, and could see were it was, and the condition before it was touched. You could make an educated guess as to the condition. Not knowing what happened to it in the fire, or what happened to it after. I'd pass on it. Not worth the risk.

 

[6gun]

I see the same cleaning marks that you do, but how can you tell they didn't get there after the fire? It looks like it was cleaned after a fire to me. The weak springs tell the story. The sight could have been soldered back on after the fire too.

Lots of people making assumptions, without knowing the story. We don't even know the condition before the fire. Maybe it already had those pits.

If you found it after the fire, and could see were it was, and the condition before it was touched. You could make an educated guess as to the condition. Not knowing what happened to it in the fire, or what happened to it after. I'd pass on it. Not worth the risk.

Who said there ever was a fire? I think people are just gussing that's what happened and I don't believe a reptile gun smith would have soldered the sight back on had he thought it was in a fire.

If the springs are week likely a Wolfe kit was installed.

 

[Hondo44]

If it's been through a fire, it received heat treatment of some sort, and we ultimately have no idea what sort of heat treating that is.

Thanks for the excellent commentary. The only thing I take exception to is the above. On the subject example of this thread we have evidence giving us more than "no idea": as stated, it didn't even get hot enough to burn off the bluing still evident in the un-scrubbed areas or to unsolder the front sight.

If it's sent back to Ruger, it will be interesting to know how they treat the gun.

 

[Sugar River]

1. Rugers are not heat treated.

This will come as quite a shock to the guys in the heat treat room in Newport.
I wonder what they've really been doing all these years.

 

[rugerguy]

well from talking with the owner, as to "someone" putting a "wood??screw" into the hole for the cylinder latch assembly, there may be other "issues" that the factory will simply NOT address and most likely will just make an "offer" ( suggestion) for a replacement.....all I see from the pictures is of a firearm that is LESS "damaged or ruined' than the vast majority of the ones that ever came into our shops and we did "water, fire damaged" guns for insurance companies over the years as well as warranty repair work for some of the factories....so I stand by my assessment that gun can and would be able to be refinished with little trouble, and would be a good candidate for a "project gun" learn to fit ,file ,buff and polish, get some new grips and replace the small springs, parts and it will be something to see in the end....sending it back to the factory would be my LAST choice....it may turn out to be too costly....YES, if ANY doubt or concerns as to "safety" do it , just to find out, as they say "curiousity killed the cat",but not in this case............I showed you the pitting in our pictures in our earlier post...now THAt WAS SERIOUS PITTING..........

...or THIS.........



to this.......




and YES, I did this entirely by hand, with emery paper and small files 8) :wink:

another "fire damaged" gun, left in the basement, well after the fire, after it fell through the ceiling ( first floor) to the basement, and they got around to pumping it out, AFTER the insurance company gave the "go ahead".......... :roll: :?

 

[movingmd]

Well thanks for all the info. I will be rebuilding the gun without a trip to AZ. I know it will never see ruger only loads. And usually never see factory strength loads. But it will be a fun learner. Thsnks for all the opinions from both sides.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Without further discussing the previous points, I'd just add that in the event the gun is rebuilt/refinished another owner a couple of transfers down the line will never know about the gun's "questionable" past.

Just a thought.

;)

 

[movingmd]

I understand where you are coming from, but this will be my first restore and customizing a ruger single action. So it will not leave my collection.
One day I hope I can honestly use hondo44's signature.
Ruger single action "collector, accumulator, builder and shooter".
I mean I only have 3 single sixes, a stainless blackhawk, and a soon to be restored vaquero.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I understand where you are coming from, but this will be my first restore and customizing a ruger single action. So it will not leave my collection.

Well, perhaps not immediately, but eventually . . .

We don't really own them, we're just temporary custodians.

;)

 

[movingmd]

Very true.
Now to decide what customizing I Want to do to it. So many options, but only one gun.
Leave it 4 5/8 and put a steel ejector on it,
Cut it back to 3 1/2 and put a short style ejector,
Cut it back to 2-3", file the ejector housing down and make a sheriff/ccw style,
Leave the steel grip frame,
Cut the grip frame up and make a 2 piece grip frame(yes I'm a welder),
Get a steel birdshead grip frame,
Or just restore to as close to original as possible.

 

[PriseDeFer]

Get ammo, get some leather, ride the high country.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Well, if the gun ends up with obvious modifications, then the "is it or isn't it original?" issue is moot.

Go for it!

:)

 

[lfpiii]

That gun had not been in a fire, it had a navel jelly/muriatic acid treatment. Late 70s and early 80s gunsmiths did the work to make the gun look old. On this one they used too much acid the the steel wool.

 

[Mickey D]

Did you get it from California? :shock:

 

[movingmd]

No I'm sc.

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

So I picked up a ruger vaquero a few months ago. Blueing was gone, and the springs are weak. My gunsmith said don't shoot it, because it probably been in a fire. But another respected gunsmith said shoot it. I have made my min up as to what im doing with it. Just want to known what most on here would do.
I just want to do a poll. Would you restore and shoot it or wall hanger.

"It's probably been in a fire" ... lol not even sure where to start with this... :-D

Can he provide numerically quantifiable figures of a Rockwell C Hardness test indicating metallurgical issues?

Can he provide evidence or pictures to indicate his statement is valid?

if not... Shoot the HELL out of it!

 

[t-reg]

That gun is a perfect base for a .40 S&W / 10mm conversion project!

Or just send it to Ruger to eliminate a bunch of cost and responsibility challenges.

 

[xtratoy]

Did the original Vaqueros have an aluminum or steel grip frame? Same question on the ejector rod housing. If aluminum and not melted away it would be one indicator to go by.

 

[Hondo44]

Original Vaqueros had steel grip frames and alum alloy ER Housings. About 1/2 way thru their production post c. 1999, steel housings were used.

From my Ruger Tutorial:

Complete blue steel Grip Frame including size vs. alum alloy usage, and steel vs. alum Ejector Rod Housing usage:

Note: Ruger refers to their blue steel grip frames as alloy steel in their catalog, meaning Chrome Molybdenum (Chromoly) as opposed to Alum alloy or stainless steel grip frames.

Blue steel GFs* on the following models:
All New Model Flat Top Blackhawk mid-size and large cylinder frames, and New Vaquero mid-size cylinder frames, XR3 size (also cut for indexing pawl system, no extensions into main frame & only 7/16” thick).
All Super BHs old and new models (exc. Hunter models); XR3-RED size on short brl. lengths; Dragoon size with 7 1/2" & 10" barrels.
All original large frame Vaqueros, XR3-RED size.
All SHORT grip .32 Mag Vaq. style single sixes & 500 .32 Mag Vaq. style single sixes with the XR3-RED size GFs.
Old Army beginning 1985, XR3-RED size.
All Bisley and Birdshead grip frames.
All "Super" Bearcat old models introduced in 1971, have steel frames.
All new model Bearcats introduced in 1993, have steel frames.


Aluminum alloy grip frames on the following models:
All blue single sixes 22 and 32 (except the 32 Mag Vaq. style and Bisley 22s & 32s).
All large size cyl frame NON-flat top Blackhawks, XR3-RED size.
All Old Models, XR3 GF, pre 1963.
All Old Models including Hawkeye, XR3-RED GF, 1963 to 1973 (except Super BH).
Old Army XR3-RED size, pre 1985.
All Old Model Bearcats prior to the Supers have alum alloy frames.


Steel ERH* on the following models:
All pre c. 1962 old models including Bearcats; new model Super BHs since c. 1999 in all barrel lengths (including 5” ERH on 44 & 357 Max 10” barrel).
Late original large frame Vaqueros except post c. 1999.
All New Vaqueros and .32 single six ‘Vaqueritos’.
All New Model Flat Top Blackhawks.


Alloy ERH* on the following models:
Guns with alloy grip frames usually have alloy ejector rod housings except early old models which had steel until c. 1962.
Old Model and NM Super BHs post c. 1962 and pre c. 1999.
Original large frame Vaqueros pre c. 1999.
Late old model Bearcats post 1962.
All the "Super" Bearcat old models introduced in 1971, have alum alloy ERHs.
All new model Bearcats introduced in 1993, have alum alloy ERHs.
The early stainless Bearcats have alloy silver anodized ERHs, only recently changed to Stainless ERHs.

*NOTE: There are several dealer exclusive, non-regular production model exceptions to the above such as the Buckeye Blackhawk convertibles that have steel GFs and ERHs, etc.