Freedom Arms question

[JimP]

I know this is a Ruger forum and if the moderator wants to delete this thread I understand.

There are a number of FA 454 Casul revolvers out there including one at my neighborhood gun shop. After a few rounds of 454 I might want to sell too!! I know FA has tight tolerances so they don't want you to fire 44 Specials in their cylinder for 44 Magnum or 45 in their cylinder made for a 454 round. If you have a FA 454 and want to shoot 45 Colt you need to buy a separate Cylinder so you have one for the 454 and one for 45 Colt. My question is this. Does anyone know a reason why I could not shoot 45 Colts in a FA 454 with the 454 cylinder if I ONLY shot 45 Colts and NEVER shot a 454 round?

JimP

 

[bedrockfred]

looks like we both want to know that answer! if you fire .45s, 454 might not seat in the chamber untill you clean the cylinder. iam going to try it,

 

[ra]

I have a FA 454 that I have fired a lot of 45 Colts in and have never had a problem, but I keep my cylinder clean. I have not had a problem with 454's chambering and I have shot both in the same session. You will get a lot of different opinions but this is mine,YMMV.

Roger

 

[targetshootr]

Someone else will own that gun someday and if it has a carbon ring built up, the pressure of a 454 could spike in a bad way.

 

[cellar701]

Some additional information in this post/thread:

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156796&p

 

[JimP]

I understand the problem with shooting a 454 round in a FA cylinder used primarily for shooting 45 Colt rounds. I am talking about ONLY shooting 45 Colts. Why not buy a FA 45 Colt then? Because there a lots of FA 454 Casuls for sale, new and used, to choose from, some at darn good prices (considering the cost and wait for a new FA revolver). Several have the length barrel in Premier grade that I would like. I want a FA dedicated for hunting with a Scope. Once the back sight is removed and a scope added it will stay on the gun. The biggest game I would hunt is Freal Hogs and Whitetail deer. A 45 should be plenty for that.

Targetshootr has a very good point and I will have to think about that one.

Thanks for the info and the links. It seems no one talks about using Just 45 Colts, always talking about the concern of shooting a 454 round after having used 45 Colts. This gun would never see a 454 while I owned it. I already have a 454 that I can use for that if I want.

JimP

 

[JimP]

And, no I don't want to remove the sights and add a scope to the 454 I own.

 

[VonFatman]

Jim,
I'd shoot that baby with .45 Colts all day long. You have a great alternative if you ever want to shoot the BIG loads.
Have fun!
Bob

 

[s4s4u]

As long as you clean it up after, you will be fine. The accuracy from the shorter case may be less than stellar but you won't know until you try. Best thing to do is start reloading, then you can make the 454 shoot like a 45.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Being a handloader myself, it is a non issue. Loading .454`s to .45 Colt levels
is the way to go.
I don`t think I would spend my money on factory .454 ammo anyway.
Once you have the brass, making inexpensive (custom) ammo is a piece of cake.

 

[cas6969]

Shooting lots of 45 , then shooting 454 shouldn't cause any pressure problems… BUT…

you might have trouble getting the 454's to chamber. You'll probably have even more trouble getting them to eject if you do get them in.

 

[paul105]

This may help -- Freedom Arms owner's response regarding the use of .45 Colt ammo in the Freedom Arms 454 cyl.. Post #20 from Bob Baker (owner of Freedom Arms) on Graybear’s forum.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,189645.msg1099239979.html#msg1099239979
Title: Re: using a 45LC in a 454
Post by: Bob Baker on January 13, 2011, 09:10:34 AM
The 45 Colt is .100 shorter than the 454 Casull. When shooting the 45C in 454 chambers, lead and powder residue is left in the chamber just ahead of the case. This build up of residue can restrict chambering the longer 454 cartridge and can cause excess pressure by not allowing the crimp of the 454 to easily open up to allow the bullet to exit the case.

Another potential problem is when the revolver is cooling down after firing it collects moisture. This moisture mixed with the lead and powder residue creates an acid which can etch the chamber underneath the lead and powder residue. With this condition, even if the residue is cleaned out of the chamber, the longer 454 case will now stick in the etched area of the chamber when fired and can be difficult to remove depending on the amount of etching. Over the years we have seen this problem more from guns in high humidity areas than from low humidity areas but it still occurs in the low humidity areas.

For some folks this seems to be an emotional issue and some folks even claim that all we are trying to do make extra money on extra cylinders. What we are actually trying to do is help our customers get the most trouble free life from their FA revolver as possible. I know of some customers that have shot thousands of 45C rounds in their 454 chambers with no problems but they thoroughly clean the gun when finished shooting. Other customers have ended up with one of the above problems fairly quick also. All we can do is put out the information, it is up to the individual what they do with the information.

 

[flatgate]

F-A's "Mid Frame, Model '97' revolver can be purchased in .45 Colt. It's even a bit smaller/lighter than the large framed .454. I've seen some darn fine accuracy in those guns.

flatgate

 

[JimP]

OK, I bought it.
An older FA Premier 454 wih 7 1/2" Octagonal barrel. I ill clean it very carefully after each use and I do believ I will hav a 45 cylinder made for it at some point in the future. Just cannot afford it right now. Thanks for all your thoughts.

best,

JimP

 

[David Bradshaw]

Alternatively, make up a dummy round with bullet seated in .454 Casull case to crimp on ogive of bullet----not cannelure. If it chambers smoothly, this allows you load use .45 Colt data with .454 brass, including "Ruger, T/C, FA only .45 Colt" data.

If you have .45 Colt ammo or brass and shoot it in .454 chamber, clean thoroughly. I've fired gaboons of .38 Special in Ruger and S&W .357 mag chambers, and .44 Special in Ruger and S&W .44 mag chambers withoutout erosion or corrosion problems.

The very firm chamber dimensions of Freedom Arms revolvers behooves you to super clean after firing shorter brass to insure proper seating of loaded rounds in chambers and free cylinder rotation.
David Bradshaw

 

[JimP]

Clean Thoroughly! Got it!

Jim

 

[David Bradshaw]

We fired quite a fair amount of .38 Special and quite a lot of .357 mag in the Blackhawk .357 Maximum. The Ruger Maximum runs SAAMI minimum chambers. As such, poorly resized .38 Special and .357 mag cases fired in other revolvers may fail to chamber. Not only had we no problem firing the shorter rounds in the Maximum, accuracy with some .357 mag loads, particularly heavier bullets, was ram-accurate at 200 yards and meters. Such accuracy probably would not pan out, were the Maximum chambers not reamed on the firm side, and especially if chamber exits were excessive.

As Freedom Arms chambers run firm and are finished smooth enough for a double action with simultaneous ejection, fowling problems should be minimal. While I have not tried .38 Special in a FA .357 magnum, nor .44 Special in the FA .44 mag, I would anticipate excellent accuracy.

Dick Casull's .454 was designed for extreme pressure operation. Tiny details----such as chamber fouling, high primers, and brass with nicks which prevent proper headspacing----compromise the revolver's first mission, RELIABILITY. Potentially, therefore, shooter safety.

Pressure that lives on the edge of brass strength poses an incipient threat to trouble-free operation. Few bullets are suitable for ROCKS & DYNAMITE Casull loads; some bullets which withstand 65,000 psi poke drill holes through game. While velocity is good to know about, and Dick Casull's revolver and ammunition developments assure his station in the pantheon of Revolver Men, a balance of velocity to bullet displays wisdom.
David Bradshaw

 

[PO2Hammer]

Congrats on getting the F/A.
I shot quite a few .38's in my F/A model 97 .357, no problems. Then I bought the ultimate accessory for a F/A revolver, a loading press. Now I just make up light loads in magnum brass. I can't think of a better candidate for a press than a .454 Casull.

 

[JimP]

PO2Hammer, at some point I am going to have to find out how easy/difficult reloading is. I have been told it is not too difficult but it is time consuming. Time consuming is a potential issue.

David Bradshaw, not sure what your last two paragraphs meant other than I should be aware of the dangers of shooting 454 after shooting 45 Colts because of the minimal fouling needed to cause problems. Got it.

JimP

 

[s4s4u]

I have been told it is not too difficult but it is time consuming.

Load development can take some time, and sometimes not. But, once you find the load that your guns likes, it does not take that much time to actually reload ammo.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Shoot it, clean it. I am in the habit of rotating the cylinder to check for free rotation each time I load, double or single action. While the 5-shot Freedom Arms is stronger than a Ruger or S&W, it is also less tolerant of conditions mentioned earlier, particularly poor resizing and high primers. (High primers should be considered a no-no in any gun.)

I do not intend to contradict Bob Baker. If I did not have the .45 Colt cylinder (and the .45 ACP) for the Model 83, I would shoot Colt ammo in the .454 cylinder, and clean it accordingly.
David Bradshaw

 

[PO2Hammer]

Even if you don't use it often, having a basic reloading setup might prove to be a big advantage down the road.
Either way, save your brass.

 

[29aholic]

I am with David as I have all 3 cylinders for my 83 as well. For years I have loaded and shot a "manly" 44spl load in my 44 magnums. However, I have always used magnum brass to get away from the extra cleaning involved when using shorter special brass.
I am currently working on an upper midrange load for the 454 using 700X. My starting load is 10gr of 700X over a 255 LSWC. It's fairly potent but tame in comparison to full blown loads. Comparitavely, I use 7gr 700X in a 44 mag case with a 240gr LSWC which out of a 6.5" Model 29 gives me ~980fps. My estimate tells me my 454 load ought to be about 1200fps.