FN Hi-power, good/bad?

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Kudu m77

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Hi there. I have previously posted a question to get advise from you guys on selecting a handgun for self-defense if I could only have a single handgun. The cz75 and fn hi-power and ruger P95 fits my hand well. I know the glocks are good but very uncomfortable for me. I can get a'' like new'' hi-power for a good price. How good is it and does it measure up with the modern handguns? I can get a ruger p95 for a good price as well? I could not believe the response I got from the guys at the forum previously, thanks for that!

Pieter.
 

E

Single-Sixer
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
130
Location
Saint Charles, MO, USA
The Hi-power is a very comfortable, reliable, easy to maintain handgun. Prices on them seem to just keep going up around here. I have put probably 3000 rounds through mine, and the only stoppages have been caused by ammo, not the Browning itself. The only thing I really don't like is the small safety lever (mine is an older model), but an after-market larger lever for about $50 would cure that if I made the effort to just buy and install one. For a good price, I wouldn't pass up a Hi-Power even if it were higher by a couple hundred dollars more than a P95.

I think the P95 is as reliable, maybe a little more accurate , and I didn't care for the slide-mounted safety so I sold it to buy something else (Taurus PT92, which I think is a great pistol as well), but the P95 may be the best bargain of all 9mm service-sized pistols.

I have no experience with the CZ but have heard it feels very similar to the Hi-Power.

Edit regarding accuracy (later posts got me to thinking a little more about it) -- The P95 I had probably was a hair more accurate than my adjustable sighted HP, and I have to admit I have to tinker with the sights (tightening screws on both sides, not just one) from time to time. If I'd get them set where I want them and remember to bring the Loc-tite, the story could be different. My brother has a newer Hi-Power with fixed sights and the more user-friendly safety lever, and it's noticably more accurate than both my Hi-power and the traded-off P95.
 

Anthony Williams

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Jan 23, 2003
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Massachusetts
The Browning Hi-Power, is in my opinion, one of the most elegant looking handguns ever made. It fits well in many hands. As a tactical weapon, despite its age, remains quite formidable. On the other hand, I have a preferance for the CZ 75. Once again in my opinion, I feel the CZ 75 embodies many of the Hi-Power's attributes, and takes them a step further in a slightly more modern design. Both pistlols remain as favorites of mine.

A.W.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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Aug 31, 2005
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PA
The HiPower is an absolutely excellent handgun. It's probably the only gun that I've always wanted that I haven't ever bought. Their accuracy is exellent, and they also have total reliability. That said, I think the CZ75 platform is the epitome of 9MM excellence. The ergonomics of the CZ75 are second only to the 1911 in my opinion. Their out of the box accuracy is eclipsed only very slightly by Sig. I own a bunch of CZ products, and have never had an issue with any of them. I also own several Sigs, and although I think the accuracy of the Sigs is slightly better, the CZ's are just spectacular in every single way. Overall, my choice would be the CZ for sure.

The P95, while a reliable and quality weapon for combat, comes nowhere near the accuracy of the HiPower OR the CZ. There is no comparison between the three for accuracy. I would rate the CZ at the top for accuracy with the HiPower just a little behind the CZ, and the 95 way behind both of them. I've shot all three extensively, and for my money, the answer is the CZ or HiPower. You didn;t mention what your 'good price' for the HiPower was, but you can get the CZ75 in polycoat brand new for about $500 or a little less.

If you want a CZ75, contact our member Cheesewhiz, he's really up on the current CZ's and pricing and he will absolutely know where the best deal is.

PS ... I agree with Anthony above .... I think next to the 1911, the HiPower is truly an elegant looking handgun, especially the older ones with their absolutely spectacular bluing. They always reminded me of older Colt revolvers with the quality of their bluing.

If the price on the HiPower is truly excellent, I might lean toward buying that ... you can always buy the CZ later as they are fairly easy to find. The P95's go for a little as $259 brand new in blue, so try not to pay much more than that for a new P95. As good a value as the P95 is, it's not really in the same class as the other two guns you mentioned, so if you want a gun with the quality and accuracy of the HiPower or CZ75B, then I wouldn't 'settle' for a P95 .... especially if you're only buying ONE. :D

REV
 

Pinecone

Blackhawk
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Jan 29, 2007
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Maine
Kudu, Ole' John had a better idea when he came out with the Hi-Power even though he had passed before it was perfected by others. Literally, dozens of pistol designs are in some way connected to Hi-Power engineering. It was and still is an excellent design. You can't go wrong, especially if you have found a good price on one!...................Dick :wink:
 

DGW1949

Hunter
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If you're talking a genuine "FN Herstal Belgum" High Power, it is an excellent gun, probably THE best fighting-9MM out there. Some of the cast-clones are not so good.

DGW
 

dennie

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
89
Location
Hamilton,Ohio USA
I have the FN Hi-Power made several years ago. It is a former military trade-in. It is one of the few semi autos I have that has been 100% reliable. The finish is nothing to brag about, and the stock safety is stiff.
However, it fits me well and is very accurate. I too like the design and looks of these pistols. Mine is staying right here with me!
I cannot help you with the others due to no experience.
 

Snake45

Patriot, Mentor, Friend ~ RIP
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The Browning P35 is one of my alltime favorite pistols, right up there with 1911 and Walther P.38. That said, I hesitate to recommend one to a new or casual shooter. Nearly all of them require substantial and delicate "tweaking" to bring them to their full potential.

If you're willing to make the effort to get one sorted out properly, and to learn to run it really well, however, there are few better 9mm pistols to be had.
 

guidedfishing

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Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
137
Location
Western Wisconsin
I have a fair amount of experience with the Browning Hi-power. Full potential is relative, like any Hi-power,or 1911, etc you can spend a lot of time tweaking and getting it just how you want it. The Hi-Power I have will eat any 9mm ammo I feed it. I practice and carry this one frequently. I agree there there a 9mm pistols that out of the box will easily beat the Hi-powers trigger as Snake eluded that is an area that can be tweaked. If you are thinking to carry this pistol and are not use to SA auto pistols like the HP and 1911 something else may be better served.

Its a elegant workhorse, it eats everything I put in it, and it is extremely accurate

If you can get the hi-power do and get it done. you will not regret it. It would also be an investment as well.

good luck
GF
 

Big Stu

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Oct 3, 2010
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Vero Beach, Florida
I have a 1982 Browning Hi-power made in Belgium, and I love it!! I have had several offers for it, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. Very reliable pistol and pretty darned accurate. I must say though, I am more accurate with my SR9c at 15 yards. The older brownings are much better then the new ones.
 

P94/GP100

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Jun 6, 2002
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Auburn, WA USA
I have a .40 Hi-Power (and have previously had 2 others-all in .40). Yes, owning a Hi-Power is a type of a disease...

Whether or not the Hi-Power represents an actual improvement over the 1911 or is just a clever way for FN to avoid marketing/patent infringements with Colt depends upon who you read/talk to...

While I tremendously enjoy and appreciate my Hi-Power, there are some serious caveats to consider when comparing it to contemporary comparable pistols:

1. They're pricey. New Hi-Powers, even when significantly discounted, hover around (or above) the $900.00 point. And that's when they're available-importation numbers (presumably based on demand) seem to be fairly low (and the .40 varients reportedly has been axed from the 2011 production line-up).

2. Despite the svelte overall size of the Hi-Power, there are some questionable ergonomics-Despite improvement over the original design, the manual safety levers can be hard to engage/disengage, and tend to have a less discernable feel than the more positive engagement "click" inherent to the 1911 safety. The spur hammer is sharp, and somewhat long, which can "bite" some users. While usable, the slide release's shelf is less than ideally pronounnced, making the overhand or slingshot technique a more effective means of going from slidelock into battery.

3. The magazine well insertion point at the receiver butt is square, and relatively unbevelable, making for dicey speed reloads, even with practice.

4. While operationally I've literally never had even one, the smaller sized ejection port at least theoretically is more susceptible to stovepipe jams.

5. The finishes on Hi-Powers (both blued and the teflon epoxy) are at least a generation behind in protectiveness of the carbon steel of the slide and receiver-and the barrels are "in the white" (although I've never experienced any corrosion on any of mine), when compared to Tenifer, Melonite, Diamond Black/DLC, etc finishes used on competitors pistols,

6. Out-of-the-box triggerpulls are frequently, frankly, atrocious. Heavy, gritty triggerpulls seem to be the norm-inexcusable at the pistols' price point, and really inexcusable given the competition regardless of the pricepoint. To have to pay around $1000 and then to have to factor in an action job from the get-go by a qualified, competent gunsmith experienced in Hi-Powers (and they're a dwindling, and increasingly expensive fraternity) is an insult to a buyer's intelligence-especially given other more viable and less expensive alternatives these days.

7. Grips-while either style of OEM Hi-Power grips are certainly usable, there's a reason for the after-market cottage industry of alternative Hi-Power grips. In my case, when using either the OEM or (unfortunately) the beautifully crafted Craig Spegel grips, my triggerfinger actually protrudes too far in the triggerguard, past the first distal joint of my index finger. My solution has been to go with the Hogue rubber fingergroove grips, which acceptably bulk up the grip for my hand-and also provide a more viable grip on the frontstrap.

8. Magazine floorplates have sharp edges at their rear, which can cause discomfort in concealed carry (particularly regarding carrying a spare magazine)-juducious choice of a magazine pouches is highly suggested to deal with these sharp protruberences.

9. Trigger reset consists of...letting the trigger go all the way foward (as opposed to "catching the link"/reset point earlier in the trigger's return travel). Yes, there are gunsmiths that can reduce the reset distance. Yes, they're expensive...Again, with a Hi-Power, the more usual technique is for the user to adapt to the characteristics of the tool; but comparatively, there are other contemporary alternatives that have a shorter, more discernable trigger reset point, reducing shot-to-shot times.

10. The magazine safety (present on all Hi-Powers except for 1942-1944 Hi-Powers produced under Nazi occupation, and immediate post-WWII production guns) is of questionable real-world utility, and provides yet another "glitch point" in the Hi-Power's triggerpull. While the magazine safety is removable, to do so also precludes one from using the Hi-Power in some competition venues, such as IDPA...

11. And, on the .40 Hi-Powers, the recoil spring is quite heavy, making for more effort required in manual slide reciprocation (cocking the hammer first is a recommendation here) and reassembly after field-stripping.

If it sounds like I'm against acquisition of a Hi-Power, I'm not-they're superb guns, naturally pointable and usually quite accurate, with excellent sights out-of-the-box. I've found them to be quite reliable, within their forecast life expectancy (likely around 12,000-15,000 rounds for barrels, 30,000-35,000 rounds for the guns themselves). The durability issue may be a significant show-stopper, especially for heavy users-and the 9mm varients are NOT suggested being fed a diet of +P ammunition (the .40s, with their beefed-up slides and components seem to be doing fine, and Cylinder & Slide apparently has had a viable conversion business in offering a conversion of .40 Hi-Powers to 9mm, using the strengthened .40 components and a Bar-Sto 9mm barrel, offering in a sense the best of both worlds).

In short, for a "one gun" person desiring a viable combat/defensive handgun, I would tend to suggest going with Glock G17 or G19 in 9mm (far less expensive, more durable-and the Gen4 Glocks with their alternative size frame backstraps, larger magazine release button, and revised grip area surface treatment might successfully address your comfort issues with previous Glocks) or an HK P30 in 9mm or .40 (superb engineering, significantly pricey, variable aftermarket support/parts availability-although contemporary reports have been very complimentary), to name two alternatives-and there are certainly others (frankly, I'm quite pleased with my very late production P89 for a DA/SA pistol-but they've been discontinued since late 2007).

While viable, given the state of available contemporary handguns, I find the Hi-Power to be be enjoyable, but somewhat obscelescent-not necessarily obselete per se, but the competition has moved far beyond it, especially for heavy-duty use in challenging environments. There are quite simply better choices available, in my opinion, given the original poster's criteria.

Best, Jon
 

Snake45

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Joined
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Messages
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P94/GP100 said:
I have a .40 Hi-Power (and have previously had 2 others-all in .40). Yes, owning a Hi-Power is a type of a disease...

Whether or not the Hi-Power represents an actual improvement over the 1911 or is just a clever way for FN to avoid marketing/patent infringements with Colt depends upon who you read/talk to...

While I tremendously enjoy and appreciate my Hi-Power, there are some serious caveats to consider when comparing it to contemporary comparable pistols:

1. They're pricey. New Hi-Powers, even when significantly discounted, hover around (or above) the $900.00 point. And that's when they're available-importation numbers (presumably based on demand) seem to be fairly low (and the .40 varients reportedly has been axed from the 2011 production line-up).

2. Despite the svelte overall size of the Hi-Power, there are some questionable ergonomics-Despite improvement over the original design, the manual safety levers can be hard to engage/disengage, and tend to have a less discernable feel that the more positive engagement "click" inherent to the 1911 safety. The spur hammer is sharp, and somewhat long, which can "bite" some users. While usable, the slide release's shelf is less than ideally pronounnced, making the overhand or slingshot technique a more effective means of going from slidelock into battery.

3. The magazine insertion point at the receiver butt is square, and relatively unbevelable, making for dicey speed reloads, even with practice.

4. While operationally I've literally never had even one, the smaller sized ejection port at least theoretically is more susceptible to stovepipe jams.

5. The finishes on Hi-Powers (both blued and the teflon epoxy) are at least a generation behind in protectiveness of the carbon steel of the slide and receiver-and the barrels are "in the white" (although I've never experienced any corrosion on any of mine), when compared to Tenifer, Melonite, Diamond Black/DLC, etc finishes used on competitors pistols,

6. Out-of-the-box triggerpulls are frequently, frankly, atrocious. Heavy, gritty triggerpulls seem to be the norm-inexcusable at the pistols' price point, and really inexcusable given the competition regardless of the pricepoint. To have to pay around $1000 and then to have to factor in an action job from the get-go by a qualified, competent gunsmith experienced in Hi-Powers (and they're a dwindling, and increasingly expensive fraternity) is an insult to a buyer's intelligence-especially given other more viable and oless expensive alternatives these days.

7. Grips-while either style of OEM Hi-Power grips are certainly usable, there's a reason for the after-market cottage industry of alternative Hi-Power grips. In my case, when using either the OEM or (unfortunately) the beautifully crafted Craig Spegel grips, my triggerfinger actually protrudes too far in the triggerguard, past the first distal joint of my index finger. My solution has been to go with the Hogue rubber fingergroove grips, which also provide a more viable grip on the frontstrap.

8. Magazine floorplates have sharp edges at their rear, which can cause discomfort in concealed carry (particularly regarding carrying a spare magazine)-juducious choice of a magazine pouches is highly suggested to deal with these sharp protruberences.

9. Trigger reset consists of...letting the trigger go all the way foward (as opposed to "catching the link"/reset point earlier in the trigger's return travel). Yes, there are gunsmiths that can reduce the reset distance. Yes, they're expensive...Again, with a Hi-Power, the more usual technique is for the user to adapt to the characteristics of the tool; but comparatively, there are other contemporary alternatives that have a shorter, more discernable trigger reset point, reducing shot-to-shot times.

10. The magazine safety (present on all Hi-Powers except for 1942-1944 Hi-Powers produced under Nazi occupation, and immediate post-WWII production guns) is of questionable real-world utility, and provides yet another "glitch point" in the Hi-Power's triggerpull. While the magazine safety is removable, do so also precludes one from using the Hi-Power in some competition venues, such as IDPA...

11. And, on the .40 Hi-Powers, the recoil spring is quite heavy, making for more effort required in manual slide reciprocation (cocking the hammer first is a recommendation here) and reassembly after field-stripping.

If it sounds like I'm against acquisition of a Hi-Power, I'm not-they're superb guns, naturally pointable and usually quite accurate, with excellent sights out-of-the-box. I've found them to be quite reliable, within their forecast life expectancy (likely around 12,000-15,000 rounds for barrels, 30,000-35,000 rounds for the guns themselves). The durability issue may be a significant show-stopper, especially for heavy users-and the 9mm varients are NOT suggested being fed a diet of +P ammunition (the .40s, with their beefed-up slides and components seem to be doing fine, and Cylinder & Slide apparently has had a viable conversion business in offering a conversion of .40 Hi-Powers to 9mm, using the strengtheded .40 components and a Bar-Sto .40 barrel, offering in a sense the best of both worlds).

Best, Jon
Absolutely outstanding, first-rate post. This pretty much covers the "necessary tweaks" I mentioned in my own post. :wink:
 

Yosemite Sam

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"Good".

IMG_0143reduced.jpg


-- Sam
 

doublebarrel_2

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
17
Location
Indianapolis, IN
P94/GP100 said:
1. They're pricey. New Hi-Powers, even when significantly discounted, hover around (or above) the $900.00 point.

CDNN's Jan. 11th email flyer listed four Hi-Powers. The two black plastic gripped ones, the 75th Anniversary edition one is priced at $699.99 (#BRO051037393). The one without the 75th Anniversary edition marking, is listed "too low to print" (##BRO051002393). The other two are the same 75th edition with wood grips. The fixed sights one is $749.99 (#BRO051035393), and the adjustable sights version is $789.99 (#BRO051033493). In case anybody is interested...
 

Yosemite Sam

Hunter
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Messages
2,113
Location
Cape Cod, MA, USA
I'm pretty sure even the Browning models are on cast frames these days. The forged ones are out there, but nowhere near as prevalent, in my experience.

And there's really no point: They're fine castings, just like Rugers are fine castings. (IMO) a lot of the "forged vs. cast" stuff was more important years ago before current metallurgy. Further, a lot of it is chest-beating hokum by those who are convinced they have to have the best of the best of the best for this one little aspect of their lives, and if they don't get it than what they have is absolute junk. This is simply not the case. I'm sure there are millions of cast Hi Powers that have shot 10s of thousands of rounds.

As for a spur hammer, not as a regular Hi Power option, as far as I know. A company called FM used to make a version with a spur and a slightly shorter slide for carry. What I did with mine (previous page) was recontour the back of the hammer strut, and remove just a touch of material from the spur (using the dreaded Dremel) and it doesn't come anywhere close to biting me.

-- Sam
 

agentadam

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
121
I don't want a spur. I like the classic hammer with a hole in it. All of the Belgium browning on Gunbroker have the spur though.

I'm not really worried about cast frames. I read that they can actually take more +p for some reason. I just want an older one withotout M.I.M internals. I also like 60-70's craftsmanship better weather its 1911's or S&W revolvers. Hell even my 80-90's Glocks and Berettas are built better. It's a sad thing that early 2000 models are even better than these recession specials they have been putting out for the last 2-3 years. I would rather get a NIB early 70's BHP for $700 on GB with the old world craftsmanship. Even wood grips were better back then.
 

P94/GP100

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Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Messages
202
Location
Auburn, WA USA
Since their inception in 1994, all .40 Hi-Powers have had the cast receivers; the 9mm versions quickly followed suit, but I'm not sure of the exact date. You can easily tell by the ruffled bottom of the receiver, in back of the magazine well-if it's ruffled, the receiver is cast; if it's smooth, it's forged.

The cast Hi-Power frame is widely perceived to be more durable, as it's more thorough hardened; the steel composition of the forged frames was by necessity softer, to allow for easier after-forging machining.

I have never heard of any MIM components being utilized in a Hi-Power.

FM is an Argentinean company (probably state-subsidized, at least to some point) that made both license-built Hi-Powers, and also further refinements/modifications based on the Hi-Power design on their own (the latter were aimed both at the local police and world-wide commercial market).

FN/Browning has certainly made ring-hammer Hi-Powers, so the hammer might be available through them; Cylinder & Slide has made a very high quality version; if you choose to go that route, you're advised to also get their sear to ensure a good parts match. They also offer numerous other Hi-Power components; see www.cylinder_slide.com. The current spur hammer has been the standard hammer on Hi-Powers for years.

Use of +P ammunition is not recommended on 9mm Hi-Powers; Cylinder & Slide (and gunwriter Massad Ayoob) cite rapid wear on the slide and barrel lugs. That is somewhat interesting, in that to my knowledge the NATO 9mm round is equivilant to 9mm +P+, and the Hi-Power is still the standard issue handgun within the British Army...


An excellent source of Hi-Power information and discussion is to be found at www.hipowersandhandguns.com and www.m4carbine.net (in their Handguns section; there have been some very in-depth Hi-Power discussions by very knowledgeable participants recently.

Best, Jon
 

Yosemite Sam

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Messages
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agentadam said:
I don't want a spur. I like the classic hammer with a hole in it. All of the Belgium browning on Gunbroker have the spur though.
Sorry, yeah, I caught that, and meant to say, "Don't think they're available without a spur", or with a ring as a standard item. Maybe from some manufacturers. The spur is the "classic" HP hammer.

As with the previous poster, I'm unaware of MIM in any HP.

-- Sam
 
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