Fire extinguisher question(s)

[Phoenix too]

So, back in the day, Halon was IT. Effective and no mess. It's pretty much no more.

1. Can I get a 2.5 lb Halon unit recharged (never 'fired', the N2 just leaked out). I 'assume' the Halon is still contained within???

2. The substitute for Halon (name escapes me, but it's similar) seems pretty inefficient, based upon ratings. 2.5lb units rated only 2BC

3. For auto use, 'BC' would seem a better choice than 'ABC' (seemingly not as corrosive), and both far more effective, size for size, than the halon substitute

4. Way, way, back in the day, I had a Purple K unit in my car, but all the reading I've been doing suggests that it might be pretty hard to clean up, tho more effective than the other dry chemical units.

I've put out three vehicle fires, and was on a fourth when the highway patrol showed up. None of these were my car, thankfully. Comments, sources, added information much appreciated. Thank you!

 

[loaded round]

Halon, like DDT and certain types of Freon was taken off the market because of it's toxicity to both humans and animals and the effect it had on the atmosphere ozone layer. It was an excellent fire suppressant but you will no longer find it on the market as it is illegal to sell.

 

[Jeepnik]

First, as with all things it takes repeated exposure for Halon to have other than immediate health effects. That said, the idiot that stayed in the room when the system was fired off is lucky he didn't suffocate.

Second, you actually do want an ABC fire extinguisher for a vehicle. Quite a few now have electric seats and widows. Some even have heated seats. Even though seats are supposed to be made of more fire resistant materials than in years past, they can still burn.

With regard to using a fire extinguisher and the problems with clean up. It's on fire, put the darned thing out then worry about clean up. If you think the powder is messy, imagine what the interior of a car looks like after some one has turned a nozzle loose in there.

Another thought. Gaseous extinguishing agents dissipate rapidly, powders stick around and in most situations do a better job.

As an aside, the halogenated agent Halon 1211 was developed to replace the earlier halogenated agent Chlorobromomethane (the USAF used it extensively until sometime in the 70's if I recall correctly). CBM was very corrosive (we used to use it as a paint stripper for our hand tools) and when it broke down when exposed to fire created some really nasty compounds. Halon was supposed to be better. It was but just.

Oh by the way, CBM was originally developed during WWII by the Germans. It was supposed to be part of a rocket fuel. It didn't work and they found out it was actually a good firefighting agent.

 

[Bull Barrel]

The rocket fuel didn't work due to (unknown tothem at the time) a fire suppressant!
How ironic!

 

[Phoenix too]

Jeepnik, lots of good observations there. In this particular case there are no electricals associated with the windows or seats (It will go in my 1970 Corvette, which previously had the Ansul Merrimac/Purple K unit)

I certainly get your reasoning with respect to gaseous agents dissipating, and the advantage of dry chemical in that regard, and to the 'get the fire out' and worry about the clean-up later.

Thank you.

 

[any ruger]

If I remember right talon is only unavailable in the US.

 

[Dave P.]

Halon 1211 is still avail.
Aircraft Spruce have several different ones
avail.
I would think yours could be recharged if not
too old. Suspect if it needed hydro testing, you
could buy a new one for less money.
Dave

 

[exavid]

My wife got a new Chevy Equinox. It doesn't need a fire extinguisher. If it catches fire I'll just get out and watch.

 

[WAYNO]

So, back in the day, Halon was IT. Effective and no mess. It's pretty much no more.

1. Can I get a 2.5 lb Halon unit recharged (never 'fired', the N2 just leaked out). I 'assume' the Halon is still contained within???

2. The substitute for Halon (name escapes me, but it's similar) seems pretty inefficient, based upon ratings. 2.5lb units rated only 2BC

3. For auto use, 'BC' would seem a better choice than 'ABC' (seemingly not as corrosive), and both far more effective, size for size, than the halon substitute

4. Way, way, back in the day, I had a Purple K unit in my car, but all the reading I've been doing suggests that it might be pretty hard to clean up, tho more effective than the other dry chemical units.

I've put out three vehicle fires, and was on a fourth when the highway patrol showed up. None of these were my car, thankfully. Comments, sources, added information much appreciated. Thank you!

Yes, you can get the Halon extinguisher refilled, but it would be unbelievable expensive. Halon cannot be produced for civilian use, but halon from old systems can be reclaimed and sold. We had some rather large Halon systems that when discharged, which happened too often because of operator error, (microwave ovens and popcorn), would have to be refilled to the tune of many thousands of dollars. And every time we needed to refill a system, the cost was much higher than the previous time.

Halotron is a good, safe, clean, modern substitute for Halon. But that requires a Halotron-dedicated unit.

Always choose an AB:C extinguisher over just a B:C extinguisher. Ya just never know what fuels will be a component of a fire. Dry chemical units are more effective than a gaseous extinguisher, and will keep a fire from re-igniting if the dry chemical is left undisturbed on the fuel. A CO2 extinguisher, although effective in killing the fire, is only temporary. Once the CO2 blows away, you still have the fuel source unprotected. If the heat is still there, the fire can rekindle.

I used to teach in my classes, dry chemical extinguishers are messy, but far less messy than a big fire.

WAYNO.

 

[Kyberz]

So, back in the day, Halon was IT. Effective and no mess. It's pretty much no more.

1. Can I get a 2.5 lb Halon unit recharged (never 'fired', the N2 just leaked out). I 'assume' the Halon is still contained within???

2. The substitute for Halon (name escapes me, but it's similar) seems pretty inefficient, based upon ratings. 2.5lb units rated only 2BC

3. For auto use, 'BC' would seem a better choice than 'ABC' (seemingly not as corrosive), and both far more effective, size for size, than the halon substitute

4. Way, way, back in the day, I had a Purple K unit in my car, but all the reading I've been doing suggests that it might be pretty hard to clean up, tho more effective than the other dry chemical units.

I've put out three vehicle fires, and was on a fourth when the highway patrol showed up. None of these were my car, thankfully. Comments, sources, added information much appreciated. Thank you!

1. Yes you can. There is still Halon out there to be had. Your extinguisher is not losing N2. It is leaking Halon. Halon does not like O-rings, given time it eats through them. Your extinguisher needs a 6 yr service. Recover what halon is left, replace all O-rings and put the recovered halon back along with what is needed to replace what was lost. In addition I'm sure the extinguisher cylinder will need a 12 yr hydrostatic test. If in a vehicle, a LONG over due 5 yr hydro. The cost of service, halon and the hydro? At least 100.00 based on 35.00-50.00 a lb for halon. It was 25.00 a lb in CA 10 years ago. Compared to the cost of a new 2.5 lb Halatron, might be worth it.

2. Yes Halatron is not as effective. But what was Dupont supposed to do? The licensing rights for manufacture was about to expire. No more revenue stream. Easy, have halon declared an ozone depleter and outlawed. Meanwhile Dupont announced they have new replacement "Clean Agent". How convenient was that? As for it not being as effective as halon? True, but then again I seriously doubt you would notice the difference when using a 2.5 lb extinguisher.

3-4. ALL dry chemical fire extinguishers are hard to clean up afterwards no matter the color. As for Purple K being more effective than normal BC (silconated baking soda)? Absolutely. Plus they are far more entertaining. They don't call them Purple K because the powder is lavender. In the dark of night, in a safe place pour some gas or diesel in a shallow steel pan. Light it and then put it out. When the powder hits the flames there are brief bright flashes of purple. It is really cool to see!

As for ABC. Yes it is corrosive. The last thing you would want to use on an airplane unless life was threatened. Otherwise plan on replacing a lot of rivets. Why does it work on "wood and paper"? It is called saponification. In other words the powder melts and adheres to the surface and cuts off the oxygen supply to the fire. For that very reason is doesn't work very well on grease fires. It melts and floats in blobs instead of evenly covering the surface, thus greater the chances for reflash.

 

[Kyberz]

So, back in the day, Halon was IT. Effective and no mess. It's pretty much no more.

1. Can I get a 2.5 lb Halon unit recharged (never 'fired', the N2 just leaked out). I 'assume' the Halon is still contained within???

2. The substitute for Halon (name escapes me, but it's similar) seems pretty inefficient, based upon ratings. 2.5lb units rated only 2BC

3. For auto use, 'BC' would seem a better choice than 'ABC' (seemingly not as corrosive), and both far more effective, size for size, than the halon substitute

4. Way, way, back in the day, I had a Purple K unit in my car, but all the reading I've been doing suggests that it might be pretty hard to clean up, tho more effective than the other dry chemical units.

I've put out three vehicle fires, and was on a fourth when the highway patrol showed up. None of these were my car, thankfully. Comments, sources, added information much appreciated. Thank you!

1. Yes you can. There is still Halon out there to be had. Your extinguisher is not losing N2. It is leaking Halon. Halon does not like O-rings, given time it eats through them. Your extinguisher needs a 6 yr service. Recover what halon is left, replace all O-rings and put the recovered halon back along with what is needed to replace what was lost. In addition I'm sure the extinguisher cylinder will need a 12 yr hydrostatic test. If in a vehicle, a LONG over due 5 yr hydro. The cost of service, halon and the hydro? At least 100.00 based on 35.00-50.00 a lb for halon. It was 25.00 a lb in CA 10 years ago. Compared to the cost of a new 2.5 lb Halatron, might be worth it.

2. Yes Halatron is not as effective. But what was Dupont supposed to do? The licensing rights for manufacture was about to expire. No more revenue stream. Easy, have halon declared an ozone depleter and outlawed. Meanwhile Dupont announced they have new replacement "Clean Agent". How convenient was that? As for it not being as effective as halon? True, but then again I seriously doubt you would notice the difference when using a 2.5 lb extinguisher.

3-4. ALL dry chemical fire extinguishers are hard to clean up afterwards no matter the color. As for Purple K being more effective than normal BC (silconated baking soda)? Absolutely. Plus they are far more entertaining. They don't call them Purple K because the powder is lavender. In the dark of night, in a safe place pour some gas or diesel in a shallow steel pan. Light it and then put it out. When the powder hits the flames there are brief bright flashes of purple. It is really cool to see!

As for ABC. Yes it is corrosive. The last thing you would want to use on an airplane unless life was threatened. Otherwise plan on replacing a lot of rivets.

If you have any other questions, ask.

 

[Tensaw]

When I was in the Coast Guard in the late sixties and early seventies, we conducted training sessions at the CG Shipboard Fire and Safety Testing Facility aboard the M/V Rhode Island located in Mobile, AL. Testing of Halon 1301 in engine room fires was relative new at that time. It got a lot of attention due to the fact that it broke down the combustion process rather than just displacing oxygen. The old Rhode Island was set on fire many times and was a nasty place to be.