Federal Ammunition Company has sold out !!

[Star43]

In a $1.9 Billion dollar deal Vista has agreed to sell Federal, Remington, CCI, Hevi-Shot & Speer to CSG, the Kinetic Group !!! CSG is a "Chech" company.....Wow, for me, my Dad only used Federal Ammo. That's it. From 22's to his shotgun shells, Only Federal is what he bought and used. Naturally seeing my Dad use Federal led me to start using it and still use mostly. Again, in later years I bought what was on sale....but I've always had a soft spot for Federal and have kept a lot of their empty boxes over the years, Just because. Your thoughts on this ????

 

[gunman42782]

It sucks. Seems like the way of the world these days though.

 

[Gator89]

As long as the company has the capital to keep the plant running, I am not overly concerned.

Fiocchi has been making ammo in the US for a long time.

 

[Wvfarrier]

Its easy to say "Oh its fine" until the US has a falling out with the foreign owners. Then it may not be so amusing

 

[blume357]

I don't hunt and only shoot to keep what little skills I have up and don't do enough of that... but as of late I only buy American and that is factory reloads from Georgia Arms.
In fact they have a pretty good Forth of July Special going on right now... spend over $150 and get 10% off and also free shipping. For no other reason than I could I just bought another 500 rounds of 9mm 115gr fmj and 250 rounds of 357 sig 125gr fmj. With the free shipping this beats the other alternative of going to my local gun show and buying at their booth .. which cost me for parking and getting in and then I have to carry the ammo way out to my car at the far end of the parking lot. The crazy thing about this latest purchase is I ordered the ammo on Wednesday at noon and the dern stuff arrived UPS Thursday at noon.

I've heard the Checks may good guns .. CZs and so maybe they can keep Federal up and running. it is what I usually use in my 22s.

 

[hittman]

https://www.rugerforum.com/threads/...ucts-ammunition-business-for-1-91-bln.310438/
Thread from last year ….

 

[gunzo]

Something happen in just the last week or so?

It was my understanding that the US gov't. wasn't quick to approve the sale, & that another offer had been made to the tune of just a touch over 2 Billion, exceeding the CSG offer.

FWIW, Vista has spun off their ammo mfg. holdings to a group of it's own called The Kinetic Group. This might help with finding additional info & seeing just exactly what all is at stake.

 

[contender]

Star43,, this is not "new" news.

As noted above,, the link hittman has provided helps some.

And as noted,, gunzo mentions the fact it hasn't been "approved" yet by the government. This is because many politicians are concerned that the ownership of a company, buy a foreign company, that makes ammunition,, which is critical to the defense of the USA is at stake.

Vista,, an investment group has control. And like ALL investment groups,, MONEY is the driving thing. They buy up companies,, they do all they can to make big profits for a short period,, (5-10 years normally) then sell the company or break up into smaller companies & sell.
That has become a very common business practice in the last few decades.

Vista got control of all but one major ammo/primer manufacturing companies.

Prices of ammo & primers have skyrocketed. They used Covid as a big excuse,, but they CONTROL the market majority. Now the investors are wanting to divest themselves of the companies,, and other investors are looking at how they can buy the companies and then you can bet they will do the exact same thing.

 

[Sam Summey]

In a $1.9 Billion dollar deal Vista has agreed to sell Federal, Remington, CCI, Hevi-Shot & Speer to CSG, the Kinetic Group !!! CSG is a "Chech" company.....Wow, for me, my Dad only used Federal Ammo. That's it. From 22's to his shotgun shells, Only Federal is what he bought and used. Naturally seeing my Dad use Federal led me to start using it and still use mostly. Again, in later years I bought what was on sale....but I've always had a soft spot for Federal and have kept a lot of their empty boxes over the years, Just because. Your thoughts on this ????

Read that this morning, the Czechs raised the price to 2 billion. (Probably paid out a few million to the "Office of Foreigners buying US Strategic Companies" to get approval. Now it is up to the major stockholders to approve the sale. (You know dis-approval is not going to happen.) I expect a large amount of their stock is already owned by "offshore" investment companies.

 

[Star43]

I was at a good size gun shop on Wednesday afternoon & I have known the owner at least 20 years. It was all the talk in the shop when I was there. He told me about the $1.9 Billion buy out. He said the agreement was made a while ago, but from what he heard, it was "going to happen". He was not too happy about it and kind of stunned about the deal.......so was I just hearing of this. Last night I looked it up and basically wrote down what I read.....I did read about objections to the sale, but it seems to be happening. Do I want it to happen ?? To me "No". But I wrote what I saw and wanted to hear other people's thoughts on it.

 

[Star43]

I really shouldn't be surprised as it truly is the way of the World now. Companies are bought up to be used and controlled, and yes it comes down to "money". It always does. Big Money investors want to rule the World. To me, it was just shocking to thinking of it as I still have memories of my Dad talking about how he liked Federal Ammo. For me between actual Federal, and CCI and Speer, it always been about 80% plus of what I buy and use.....why should I be surprised. Look at Colt. They are owned by CZ. A Czech company. It is how it goes now......It's not just guns & ammo though. Look at the Insurance industry all around our country and especially in CA here. Most of all the decisions on Commercial insurance policies are being made by Lloyd's of London now and the reinsurers in the world. Mainly in Switzerland. To think I had to get insurance for a decent size new Chevron gas station, just last week , with a large building housing a few other business tenants, and I couldn't get a standard US company to do it. There were too many millions involved. Hello Lloyd's of London. And guess what ? Lloyd's is NOT an insurance company at all. It is a large building with a bunch of older guys smoking cigars and drinking their whatever they are drinking, and discuss different insurance type investments around the world, and especially in the good old USA. Lloyd's is a major player in the insurance world. .....So why should I get upset about a good old US company like Federal being sold out...... Nothing is really new I guess, but when it hits an old memory of being with your Dad, it just makes want to vent of how things are now

 

[gunzo]

Star43, you did bring new or current news. Thank you!

It seems the Cech group upped it offer to 2B & just 2 days ago a division of The US Treasury Dept, CFIUS(committee on foreign investments in US) has approved the sale!!!
I learned this mostly by googling Kenitic Group as suggested & seemingly legit info abounds.

Not good! and not about me, or any other shooter/hunter. Much, much bigger than that. See who CSG sells to, what they do.

 

[KIR]

Czech mate!

 

[WAYNO]

The hot ammo market in America is imported ammo. On TargetSports today, of the dozen+ new offerings, only one is domestic. The American companies can't or wont supply us with ammo, and Americans don't want to pay the price for domestic ammo, so the big companies are doing whatever it takes to remain in business and/or remain competitive, and get the quick buck.






.

 

[Star43]

This is all very interesting. For this investment company to be buying an American ammo company right now, it makes you think. Certainly these "buyers" know the economic climate on ammo sales here in the states and abroad for that matter.....To me, this means there will be probably a lot of changes that will happen at Federal and the rest when this deal gets done. And if the new owner-ship does make changes, those changes may very well affect people and their jobs in my opinion. Time will tell.

 

[DGW1949]

The ammo landscape is changing on many fronts, that's for sure....I could be wrong, but I doubt that many of these changes are going to benefit you and I...Think I'll order-up another case or two while it's still relatively cheap. You know, while I still can.

DGW

 

[Star43]

I think that is very wise idea to get what you can, while you can. I've never been a fan of "change". Any changes from this development I doubt will be any good for us in general. I just feel for all the workers at Federal. Especially the ones who have been there a long time. It makes you wonder what they are thinking right now. Perhaps they saw the writing on the wall. Who knows? I just hope they will be ok when the dust settles.

 

[Mike J]

What will happen remains to be seen. I can understand why you wouldn't like the idea of a foreign company owning an American ammunition manufacturer. What will happen remains to be seen but I wouldn't expect any lower quality if Federal is bought by the Czechs.
As Blume mentioned CZ makes some very nice pistols. I don't own any of them but I have gotten to shoot more than one & I like them. As far as that goes CZ also owns Dan Wesson & not too terribly long ago purchased Colt,

 

[burner]

Back in my trap shooting days I burned up a couple hundred cases of Federal papers. Ejected those babies right on the ground.. The guys shooting AA's guarded them with their life to reload or sell...

 

[Star43]

Yes, I saw that on Colt's website about the CZ ownership....Yes, I agree that CZ makes good stuff. To me it doesn't seem that long ago that the Wondernine to get ,if you could, was the CZ 75 , I think that was the model. That was when they were still Communistic or just breaking away from that crap. That CZ 75 gun spun off many a copy cats. A lot were the Tanfoglios made in Italy, among others ...So yes, CZ does make good stuff, and that is "IF" CZ is the main player here. I would imagine they are. Time will tell. Right now it is still CSG the Kinetic Group. Either way, we will see what happens.

 

[gunzo]

I don't see a move from the actual manufacturing locations at the present time.

But what product will be produced & where it will be sent is the question. IMO. Or,,,, where might the components be diverted to is a bigger question. Think this through, they may have bought a huge ammo company, but their customers are not plinkers, hunters or target shooters.
Not panicking here as I've got my supplies, & this is nothing about me, but just another weakening of America and another dependence on foreign ownership.

 

[el caminero]

And i recall large (read LARGE) investments by arabs and by japanese sometime back, being re-sold at fire-sale prices some time thereafter.

 

[Sam Summey]

I don't see a move from the actual manufacturing locations at the present time.

But what product will be produced & where it will be sent is the question. IMO. Or,,,, where might the components be diverted to is a bigger question. Think this through, they may have bought a huge ammo company, but their customers are not plinkers, hunters or target shooters.
Not panicking here as I've got my supplies, & this is nothing about me, but just another weakening of America and another dependence on foreign ownership.

I suspect within 3 years the processes, and new advanced machinery that the plants developed because of the COVID worker shortage, to have been shipped offshore (like the Balkan Countries) The VISTA plants will be vacant like the vast Remington plant is NY.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

When so many brands are bought up by one company- anywhere- the quality of said brands tends to even out, and not for the better. Why shouldn't it? No competitors. Not happy.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

There's a radio show called Gun Talk. Tom Gresham is the host. He and his family have 3 generations of experience in the firearms industry. His dad was Grits Gresham ( old guys may remember him) and Tom's son is in the industry. Recently listening to the show on a Sunday morning, Tom made the comment that he expected to see another ammo shortage before long. He didn't say why or what would precipitate it but he has so many contacts in the industry over the years that I tend to believe him. Expect I'll even add to my supplies in the near future. Just picked up 1000 rounds of Winchester 9mm FMJ.

What is your take?

 

[Star43]

There's a radio show called Gun Talk. Tom Gresham is the host. He and his family have 3 generations of experience in the firearms industry. His dad was Grits Gresham ( old guys may remember him) and Tom's son is in the industry. Recently listening to the show on a Sunday morning, Tom made the comment that he expected to see another ammo shortage before long. He didn't say why or what would precipitate it but he has so many contacts in the industry over the years that I tend to believe him. Expect I'll even add to my supplies in the near future. Just picked up 1000 rounds of Winchester 9mm FMJ.

What is your take?

I think you did good. Who knows what the heck is going to happen, but I think the comment he made makes a lot of sense. I wonder if this Federal takeover will have anything to do with it? All in all, I think folks should stock up a little just in case. Not to go crazy, but to just give yourself a little cushion. If and when there is a shortage, we all know the prices will go up. Reason I say for us not to go crazy, is because if we all went nuts buying up ammo today, that can/will cause a shortage right there. The liberals would love that, saying we caused our own problem !!!

 

[GypsmJim]

I had my dream job for 30 years. My pension was building up to awesome levels. Then, with my company's fantastic balance sheet, they were accosted with a takeover attempt. Senior management countered, but had to borrow too much money, and even though they got the company they soon went bankrupt because of a looming recession.

When I studied for an MBA there were guidelines on profit margins and ROI. Today, everything is different. No sense of responsibility any more.

When a major company (not to mention one that has a big corner on the market) gets bought out, there will be no good to come of it.

 

[DBnoise]

It is a done deal. Earlier this week it was approved by OUR GOVERNMEMT and Prague since they, CSG is an international arms supplier. The Biden administration sold us out and it is one step closer to achieving disarming the citizens of the US. You can't shoot a gun with no ammunition. Furthering this Biden, Slow Mo Joe, wants the US to join the UN Small Arms Treaty.
Small arms is a small portion of their, CSG business so they claim, which further jeopardizes us because if they think it is not profitable or for what ever reason, small business units of a large corp are the first to be on the chopping block. Wrote letters to 2nd Amendment Senators long time ago about Vista Outdoors monopolistic practices and this purchase acquisition. This is how they circumvented that. ALL OF THIS FELL ON DEAF EARS. To my knowledge not the NRA, ILA, NAGR, NFGR, none advocated against this. To me it is a matter of National Security. Seventy percent of our ammunition in now controlled by some other country. Sorry but I cringe at the range when I see lot of AK ammo on the ground and Tulammo boxes in the trash. Lost of few friends to that round. I choose not to buy it. I don't want to fund our enemies. Just me.
Just my opinion and 2 penny's worth.

 

[gunzo]

The share holders have to approve, & that vote is Tuesday I think. But the stock is up so suspect the share holders to be happy campers.
Yeah, just about a done deal.

Somehow,,,,,,,,, I have to think that if the Government branch that approved this was under a different administration it wouldn't have been approved. Think about that for a minute.

 

[Gator89]

I suspect within 3 years the processes, and new advanced machinery that the plants developed because of the COVID worker shortage, to have been shipped offshore (like the Balkan Countries) The VISTA plants will be vacant like the vast Remington plant is NY.

Didn't Remington move its manufacturing to LaGrange, GA?

Moving out of anti-gun states is a good thing in the long run.