Electrical help

[Ammoman78]

Anyone here good with electrical wiring in the house? 4 of my outlets "died" upstairs. 1 in one bedroom,the one for the furnace in the upstairs closet and 2 in the next room. The furnace closet is between the 2 bedrooms. So I'm guessing they're all on the same chain?

My plug in checker says open neutral on all 4 outlets. I took them all out and none of the wires were loose or disconnected. The power is going into the outlets just not coming out to power up anything.

Each room that has a dead outlet also has other outlets that are working but they are on different brakers. Any thoughts on where else I could check for the loose/issue white neutral wire?

I don't think it can be on any of the other outlets that work since they are on separate brakers...am I wrong?

 

[snowman2]

The neutral may be burnt off the neutral bar in the electrical panel it has known to happen if the lugs weren't tightened properly . Also check to see if there is a junction box along that circuit . did you see in the the outlet boxes if there were any white wires marretted together sometimes one of the neutrals is burnt off inside the wire nut. Did you check to see if you had power to ground from the black wire to ground if not check your breaker it could be bad and not appear to be tripped. Good luck.

 

[Taterman]

Good advice snowman.

 

[Ammoman78]

I'm gonna check the neutral wires in the braker box tomorrow. I had power 120 volts when I put the red to hot (small side) of the outlet and the black to the ground. No power when the volt meter cables were put into the hot and neutral of the outlet. Hope I explained that right.

I checked the circuit brakers the best I know how with the volt meter. Red cable to the circuit braker terminal and black to the neutral bar and it read out 120 volts. I didn't check to see if all of the neutral wires were screwed in tightly in the braker box.

Thanks for the advice...forgot to mention that.

 

[snowman2]

Good advice snowman.

Thanks I do this stuff for a living. Seen it all

 

[Taterman]

Good advice snowman.

Thanks I do this stuff for a living. Seen it all

Former sparky here too.

 

[Ammoman78]

The other thing that threw me off. There is also one outlet and light switch down stairs that run off the same circuit braker but they work fine. The light switch turns on the ceiling fan and lights on it. They are directly below the outlets that went "dead".

I checked the neutral on those and they all seem fine. Since those work but the other 4 upstairs don't I'm gonna guess I'm missing something.

 

[Xsales]

Doubt it will be a breaker because there IS power on the black (hot)
Possible but unlikely a loose neutral in the main panel as doubtful there is only 4 outlets on the circuit

You lost the neutral in either:
1) In a working j. box ON the same circuit
2) Have an unknown splice in a wall buried
3) Have a damaged neutral along the cable somewhere in the wall

After checking the 4 non-working outlets (eliminate the obvious) quickly move to the surrounding working outlets and switch boxes looking for (as stated) a burned or disconnected white wire

** IF they wired the house with a split neutral (2 circuits - 1 neutral) it is possible it will be the same problem as above but be on a working circuit

Seen this literally hundreds of times
Process of elimination

 

[Taterman]

The other thing that threw me off. There is also one outlet and light switch down stairs that run off the same circuit braker but they work fine. The light switch turns on the ceiling fan and lights on it. They are directly below the outlets that went "dead".

I checked the neutral on those and they all seem fine. Since those work but the other 4 upstairs don't I'm gonna guess I'm missing something.

I know it's not convenient, but have you checked the box holding the fan up? Maybe the fan wobbling or vibrations loosened a connection in the box?

 

[Ammoman78]

There are 2 other working outlets in the office (different braker)...should I check those even though they are on a different braker? Same as the other room...3 outlets total in the room 1 dead 2 working but different brakers.

I pulled down the ceiling fan and checked the wires. I didn't see any loose or disconnected wires. I also checked the light switch that turns on the ceiling fan...didn't see any issues.

All of the "dead" outlets are upstairs spread across 2 bedrooms and the furnace closet outlet which is directly between the bedrooms. Thanks for the suggestions...greatly appreciated!!

 

[Ammoman78]

** IF they wired the house with a split neutral (2 circuits - 1 neutral) it is possible it will be the same problem as above but be on a working circuit**

Jus to make sure I understand. It's possible that it's on a working outlet that's on a different circuit braker but in the same room?

 

[Xsales]

** IF they wired the house with a split neutral (2 circuits - 1 neutral) it is possible it will be the same problem as above but be on a working circuit**

Jus to make sure I understand. It's possible that it's on a working outlet that's on a different circuit braker but in the same room?

Yes, If they ran the cable into that room(s) (typically a 14/3 with ground) then there could be a split neutral in those boxes

How old is the house?
PM your phone, I'll call you tomorrow to discuss more in depth

 

[Taterman]

** IF they wired the house with a split neutral (2 circuits - 1 neutral) it is possible it will be the same problem as above but be on a working circuit**

Jus to make sure I understand. It's possible that it's on a working outlet that's on a different circuit braker but in the same room?

Yes.

 

[Bull Barrel]

I had the same situation once. Turned out to be the drop from the pole was bad. One leg was open. Called the power co and they confirmed it and put in a splice right before the cable reaches the house.

 

[blume357]

If you have the furnace on the same circuit as those outlets then I would suggest that be put on a separate circuit.... really should not be that way.

It sounds like some where on the line the neutral wire got disconnected.... hopefully in one of the plug in boxes and not buried in a wall somewhere. Good luck....

As a side note... in my work in peoples home I use a big vacuum that pulls close to 15 amps at start up... back in the old days not unusual to blow a fuze .... twice in the last 35 years I actually burned a wire in two somewhere in the line. Not supposed to happen breaker should trip or fuze blow way before you ever burn a wire in two.

 

[Kanook]

Feb 25th 2011 I lost my house to a Electrical fire (faulty light switch).

The first thing the investigators (all 4 of them during a 6 month period) asked "Did you do any electrical work/repair to anything in the house?"

 

[Mega Twin]

It could also be something as simple as a bad outlet.
In my daughters house she lost power to some outlets,and after replacing the breaker,she call me and we went down to check it out,and found that one of the outlets had a bad crossover,and the power from one side of it fed the other outlets in parallel.

 

[Ammoman78]

Kanook,

Sorry to hear that.

 

[warren5421]

If house has some age remember at one time there was not a standard on color so you can have both black and white hooked to the breaker and the same with the bus bar. One of the things I ran into was a home owner would do some wiring bring 6 or 7 wires together and try to use a wire nut to hold them together and one would pull out of center making no contact but looking like it was in the nut. Using the wrong size wire nut can cause wires to not stay connected.

 

[Ammoman78]

My electrical work was done 7 years ago when I moved in. We had the panel upgraded. I've gone through all of the dead outlets and the working ones in the affected area. I checked several down stairs also. Replaced the old back stabbed ones I found. Same issue the 4 outlets have power going to them but not out.

I'm gonna guess that it's a junction box in the attic maybe that has a neutral wire that's loose or disconnected. Thanks for the help guys...much appreciated.

 

[Ammoman78]

A local electrician just talked to me for 15 minutes on the phone I told him the reader said open neutral. He said it's gonna be at an outlet. He said he'd rather help me on the phone if possible so I wouldn't have to pay for it. I told him I appreciate that but if I can't find/fix it I'd call him back. I think I located the first in the chain...the work continues

 

[coach]

My electrical work was done 7 years ago when I moved in. We had the panel upgraded. I've gone through all of the dead outlets and the working ones in the affected area. I checked several down stairs also. Replaced the old back stabbed ones I found. Same issue the 4 outlets have power going to them but not out.

I'm gonna guess that it's a junction box in the attic maybe that has a neutral wire that's loose or disconnected. Thanks for the help guys...much appreciated.

I've had trouble with back stabbed switches. I won't ever hook them up that way.

 

[Ammoman78]

I replaced the backstabs with newer outlets.

 

[Taterman]

I replaced the backstabs with newer outlets.

Did it straighten things out? I don't like the back stabbed ones either.

 

[wiz1997]

When troubleshooting something like this, you should always check the voltage in both the bottom and top of a receptacle.

Take a look at the side of a receptacle where the screws are and you'll see a small brass piece connecting the top and bottom screws.

Many times that small piece of brass will burn off, causing a break in the circuit.

In my 40 plus years of electrical work, that small piece of brass burning in two, has been the number one cause of losing part of a household circuit.

Test the bottom and top of each suspect receptacle, if there is 120 volts between the blades on the top part and no voltage between the blades of the lower part, that is probably the bad outlet.

Just replacing the receptacle is only part of the fix, you need to find out why the brass piece burned in two, usually an overloaded circuit.

 

[Ammoman78]

I do believe I found the gremlin. It was in the upstairs bathroom light switch. One set of neutral wires had a loose twist cap on it...forget the actual name. Replaced it with a slightly larger one and tightened it up. So far so good.

 

[Xsales]

AMMO:

Then CONFIRMED - lost the neutral which will cause the issue

MANY of us said it, but can't see through the computer to tell you exact

Glad you found it

 

[Ammoman78]

Yes sir...all is well thanks again everyone.

 

[Taterman]

Yes sir...all is well thanks again everyone.

Great to hear, nice job!