Cowboy Special heads up

[KLNC]

Just a heads up to those who might be thinking about loading some "Cowboy Special" 45 loads with the Starline brass now available. Thought I'd try it, so ordered some Starline brass. I liked the idea of a rimmed cartridge with a roll crimp. Loaded up a couple as test loads--none would chamber in my 45 ACP USFA or Ruger ACP cylinders. It appears the brass is just a bit too long--just enough to keep it from chambering. Others have apparently had good experiences without issue. Just doesn't seem like its worth going through the process of trimming every piece of brass as the regular ACP loads work fine.

These were 200 gr. RNFP .452s. To be sure it wasn't a bullet issue I test loaded a piece of 45ACP brass with the same bullet and roll crimp--no problem chambering.

Not trying to persuade anyone not to try the Cowboy Special--just relating my own experience.

 

[Get Wood]

So You Are Talking .45 AutoRim Brass …???

 

[KLNC]

No. Auto Rim is another variation used where you would otherwise use moon clips. The Cowboy Special has a 45 Colt rim and is supposed to be 45acp length and should work in acp chambers, but mine didn't.

 

[Johnnu2]

I always thought that that Cowboy Special brass was designed for use in guns chambered for 45 Colt (and not for the 45ACP chamber).... I THINK that's what I read on their website... (?)

 

[Cholo]

The Cowboy .45 Special is a case that is optimized for use with light loads in .45 Colt caliber revolvers for Cowboy Action Shooting.

www.starlinebrass.com/45-cowboy-special

 

[KLNC]

There have been a number of threads about this--search Cowboy Special and they will come up. Some on the forum have reported the rimmed Cowboy Special brass works fine in their ACP cylinders, which was what intrigued me. Others have had the same issue I did with not chambering. I just gave it a try as an experiment and reported on my experience. Not trying to argue any particular point--just commenting based on what I found.

The Cowboy Special will chamber in any 45 Colt cylinder without question.

 

[mikld]

Any time there is a fit problem, measure. Measure your handoads; diameter, case length, OAL, bullet diameter, etc. to find out where your ammo is too big. Then you can find a remedy...

Using "short" Colt rimmed cartridges in an ACP cylinder?

 

[protoolman]

I'd take a second look at the bullet. Do the empties chamber of do they stick out without the rim seating? In my convertible Blackhawk .45 acp factory roundnose fits but cowboy special with a semj wadcutter made for the 45 Colt won't chamber because the little driving band even sized to .452 won't go in. The throats need to be opened up to reliably use the 45 specials in Blackhawks with the acp cylinder. For you guys late to the .45 special party the round was developed for slow cowboy shooting velocities to reduce powder capacity in .45 Colt by making a short version. At the same time to use ..45 acp load data it was given .45 acp length etc basically making it a rimmed .45 acp also. So people figured out it shoots more accurately in the shorter Chambers on their convertible Blackhawks. So it's an interesting unique dual use sorta thing to mess with. It differs from Auto rim in that Auto rim has a really thick rim that is made to duplicate the thickness of an acp rim PLUS the moonclip thickness. Auto rim only works in double action Colt and s&w revolvers that were made to use moonclips. .45 special would not have a thick enough rim to work in those.

 

[KLNC]

protoolman

Good explanation. In mine , the brass alone would not seat so it wasn't bullet related.
I think the brass would need to be just slightly trimmed and it would work in the acp cylinder.

 

[jack black]

Not for the 45 acp cylinder.

 

[protoolman]

In that case I would get one of the Lee trimmers that fits in your drill. Should be able to trim a few hundred in an hour easy.
To those of you that think it's not for the acp cylinder, you are only partly right. It wasn't originally but people found out it works in the acp cylinder even better ( more accurate). So do what you want with it, it's a fun round to play with.

 

[veeman]

I have not had a problem with my 45 Special brass, use it regularly in my ACP cylinder, with MBC Hi Tek 200 gr FRN.

 

[Rclark]

Veeman, do you roll crimp?

 

[veeman]

Lee Factory Crimp die in the crimp groove.

 

[Dale53]

I have a Ruger SS Bisley .45 ACP/.45 Colt Convertible. When received the cylinder throats on both cylinders were undersize (.449"-.450"). After reaming the cylinder throats both cylinders work quite well and are accurate.

I have no problem using the Cowboy Special brass in my .45 ACP cylinder with bullets needing a roll crimp (including the NOE version of the Lyman 452424 (250 gr. Keith SWC).

FWIW
Dale53

 

[Rclark]

I suspect then that the roll crimp makes the difference with the ACP cylinder as effectively you are no longer head spacing on the case mouth as you would with the taper crimp.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Huh .

Yes , I am familar with the Cowboy Special since the Adirondack Jack era . Intreaging idea , but hadn't yet gotten any . But lately having an itch to get back into CAS , so they're on my mind again .

But I must have blinked about the part about .45acp cylinders . I had figured it would need to be countersunk for the rim , and I was concerned about resulting case support for acp brass .

FWIW , I don't have Ruger acp cylinder ( yet) , but an ASM SAA clone, and M1937 S&W .

 

[veeman]

I would also add that the cowboy special brass works only in my NM BHFT acp cylinder. They do not work in my OMBH acp cylinder. The rim is touching the index to not allow the shell full entree.

 

[nitro-express]

I'd take a second look at the bullet. Do the empties chamber of do they stick out without the rim seating? In my convertible Blackhawk .45 acp factory roundnose fits but cowboy special with a semj wadcutter made for the 45 Colt won't chamber because the little driving band even sized to .452 won't go in. The throats need to be opened up to reliably use the 45 specials in Blackhawks with the acp cylinder. For you guys late to the .45 special party the round was developed for slow cowboy shooting velocities to reduce powder capacity in .45 Colt by making a short version. At the same time to use ..45 acp load data it was given .45 acp length etc basically making it a rimmed .45 acp also. So people figured out it shoots more accurately in the shorter Chambers on their convertible Blackhawks. So it's an interesting unique dual use sorta thing to mess with. It differs from Auto rim in that Auto rim has a really thick rim that is made to duplicate the thickness of an acp rim PLUS the moonclip thickness. Auto rim only works in double action Colt and s&w revolvers that were made to use moonclips. .45 special would not have a thick enough rim to work in those.

Very good explanation. Small point, the 45 acp length case is referred to as the 45 Cowboy case, so as not to be confused with the 45 S&W Schofield or 45 Special as it is sometimes referred to.

Nitro.

 

[Justice B. Swift]

I may as well jump in with a few thoughts.
I began cowboy action shooting in the early 1990s using .45 colt Blackhawks. My short barrelled Winchester 94 Trapper rifle (also .45 colt) only held 9 rounds and our club commonly set up for 10 shots, mandating a "load one more" for guys like me. Soon I began the search for how to get 10 rounds into the rifle's magazine. I played with colt cases shortened to ACP length only to learn that I could now get 10 rounds in, but they wouldn't feed from the mag to the chamber. I then played with the case length, shortening batches of 10 to various lengths to determine the shortest that would feed. In the end, if I trimmed more than .080" from the colt case it was a "no go". Still couldn't fit 10 rounds with function. Then I cut down the follower spring to gain space in the tube. No luck. Next I sold the gun, bought a Marlin 1894 cowboy, and switched to Starline .45 schofield brass. Smooth sailing and never looked back.
I'm thinking that if a guy needs ACP case length in a Blackhawk you likely can pick up an ACP cylinder cheaper than specialty brass, and just shoot ACP Ammo.
If rimmed cases are imparitive then Schofield cases with appropriate powder selection will get it done. Trail Boss powder comes immediately to mind.
Another aspect of this for me was the issue of handgun reloading "on the clock" when more rounds are required during a "stage". The short ejector rod throw of the Blackhawk, combined with the long case of the .45 colt made ejecting cases, in a hurry, a little "sketchy". I shortened the head of my base pin by 3/16" to gain travel and when combined with the shorter Schofield case... Wa la.. Problem solved.
I Guess I'm just not sure what is being solved with the special case. I see more concern over somebody roll crimping this with a "jam fit" against the step in an ACP cylinder and causing excessively high pressure. If you have the ACP cylinder, use ACP brass. Otherwise Schofield cases get it done in a Colt cylinder. Just my $.02