Cheese and rev- help with a question?

[freedomcosts]

I just got my 9c back, needed a new extractor, and since it had the FTEs I've been thinking about asking you guys, but hate to bother folks.
I have fired about 400 rounds of that remngtn 115-gr JHPs over the last couple of years, never had a problem. It's my carry round so that's why I fired it so much, verifying it would cycle. About 3 weeks ago, I had some FTEs- something didn't feel right and I picked up some brass. (I can't post pics, I have some if I could send them to you somehow.) Three of the casings had actually peeled backwards- about 1/3rd of the casing was peeled about half the length of the case.
I don't see how this could really hurt the chamber, but I love this 9c so- I kinda worry about it. Not to mention it's me EDC so depend on it.
I saved some of the live rounds and contacted rmngtn, but because I don't have the boxes, with Lot # etc, they said 'we'll have someone contact you' but never did.
I'm not a smith, nowhere near, so don't have a way to really look at the chamber area- but do you think there's a reason for concern? Don't hurry with an answer, it's Christmas, and I guess I'm more- curious- than anything. thanks in advance.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Pull the barrel out of the gun and do a dunk with that particular round in the chamber. Now see if you can push it in further with some thumb force. You could have a fouled chamber transition, this would account for a couple of your issues. Try this first and let us know.

 

[freedomcosts]

OK, I kinda figured it was the rounds, you know, the casing wasn't tight around the bullet. I compared those rounds to some others, and they did seem to have a - ridge- larger than others , but barely visible with the nekid eye. Never happened with anything but the rmngtn jhps. Will be back.

 

[revhigh]

I'm a little confused ... is it peeled back from the FRONT of the case (bullet end) towards the back (primer end) or the other way around ?

If it chambers all the way, goes into battery fully, and then fires, it's unlikely it's getting torn up going IN. I can't see how a case could get 'peeled back', and still chamber, since it would have double the brass thickness in that area. I can't see how it could possibly go into battery and fire. The chamber and the round are a pretty precise fit. I'd do as cheese suggests ... break the gun down, take the barrel out, and drop a round into the chamber by hand ... if it seats all the way you're good to go on insertion. It could be getting torn up somewhere on the ejection port I guess.

Can you please be more specific about which end of the brass is getting torn up ?

REV

 

[Cheesewhiz]

If it's the green and white box Remington UMC that can be found in 50 count boxes. They had a run or so that had some length and crimp issues this year, you can find it on the internet with some search. Remington didn't admit to an issue as far as I can tell but quite a few buyers have been complaining about this.
I'm not a fan of Remington anything, except for my mid 70's era 870 Wingmaster 12ga and I think they make the best small pistol primers in the world, I never liked their loaded pistol ammo very much and that goes back a long time.

Rev, the chamber on a Ruger and for that matter a Glock and a Smith is large in diameter, I could see a bad crimp loading in those guns easily.

 

[revhigh]

If it's the green and white box Remington UMC that can be found in 50 count boxes. They had a run or so that had some length and crimp issues this year, you can find it on the internet with some search. Remington didn't admit to an issue as far as I can tell but quite a few buyers have been complaining about this.
I'm not a fan of Remington anything, except for my mid 70's era 870 Wingmaster 12ga and I think they make the best small pistol primers in the world, I never liked their loaded pistol ammo very much and that goes back a long time.

Rev, the chamber on a Ruger and for that matter a Glock and a Smith is large in diameter, I could see a bad crimp loading in those guns easily.

A bad crimp maybe but not a third of the case peeled back on itself ...


REV

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Rev, I think he was looking at fired cases and found some peeled back. That can be from a bad chamber seat position but a poorly made round is more common.
The thing here is these aren't reloads, this is factory ammo, factory ammo normally holds together and runs fine but in this case it sounds like some bad ammo.
What I found with this particular round on-line was some guys had some with bad crimps, open mouths, no neck tension and the bullets were all over the place as far as seating depth (probably during shipping).
That's a receipe for all kinds of problems, feeding issues and compressed loads are just two of them. I'm fairly certain that the "peeled back" mouths are from a compressed load condition with a no crimp, in a loose chamber so the cases were fire formed into a bad science project.

 

[revhigh]

Gotcha!

REV

 

[freedomcosts]

The rounds had to peel back on insertion, and they surely did fire, and even one or two ejected. After a couple failed to eject I checked some on the floor and found a couple others, so some did peel back and eject even.
My only real concern is, with that peeled section, would it have damaged the chamber area. I will definitely go online and look for the other info, since Remngtn is oviously not cooperating.
I still have about a hundred of these live rounds, and they do SEEM to have a pretty large- not gap- the case where it meets the bullet is pronounced. My other SD round is Wnchstr Silvertips, and comparing the two, the- joining-spot does seem larger than on the Slvrtps. I appreciate yalls' answers, guess I just have to eat the cost of these rounds, I'm not going to risk firing them, and have permanently switched SD rounds.

 

[revhigh]

The rounds had to peel back on insertion

Not saying it didn't happen, but I find it almost incomprehensible that there could be that much slop in your chamber area to allow a round that is 'peeled back' on itself to go into battery and fire.

You would certainly feel that upon chambering manually at the very least. It takes a lot of force to peel back the case of a round ... I know ... I've done it several times when reloading when the case doesn't go into the resizing die perfectly square, or when seating the bullet.

What do you think Cheese ?


REV

 

[freedomcosts]

Have a pic on shutterfly, if you can open it. But, it's peeled back- it wasn't peeled back when I loaded into the mag- it fired, it was peeled back when it came out. When else could it have peeled but when the slide rammed it into the barrel?
http://www.shutterfly.com/lightbox/view.sfly?fid=b37203f4e59ff9d82a944dfefaeb216b

 

[freedomcosts]

Well you can't open it without my password...I tried. I'll be glad to email the pic to any doubters- or the curious.

 

[freedomcosts]

The rounds had to peel back on insertion

Not saying it didn't happen, but I find it almost incomprehensible that there could be that much slop in your chamber area to allow a round that is 'peeled back' on itself to go into battery and fire.

You would certainly feel that upon chambering manually at the very least. It takes a lot of force to peel back the case of a round ... I know ... I've done it several times when reloading when the case doesn't go into the resizing die perfectly square, or when seating the bullet.

What do you think Cheese ?


REV

Not being a smart-a, but a question- what slop in the barrel? I clean my pistols almost every time I shoot them, and even when I got home to check the barrel after these 'peels', it was pretty doggoned clean. And I didn't feel a thing until a round failed to eject.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Those rounds are getting compressed from the bullet being setback when they load into the chamber. Do not shoot them anymore, the peeling is from over pressure, that is dangerous.

My guess is you can take a new round with that loose crimp and push the bullet into the case by just using force against a table or something.

Again, stop shooting that junk.

 

[freedomcosts]

Well as I said, I'm never firing that brand again, so not worried about fixing them. I guess setback could be the problem, but it was definitely a problem with the rounds in that case, too, cause they were not loaded/unloaded but once. "the peeling is from over pressure" so the slide is forcing them into the barrel- too hard? Doesn't happen with other rounds.
as for that 'junk', I've been shooting the Rmngtn rounds for over 3 years, one bad batch means everything they do is junk?
Wow.......

 

[revhigh]

Freedom

When I said 'slop' I meant excessive clearance, not dirtiness.

REV