Cheating in sports...???
- Thread starter KIR
- Start date
bobski
Hunter
happens all the time!
bullseye especially.
you have 9x, 9 bullseyes going thru the same hole....so instead of chancing your last shot to be off, you plant one in the dirt.
its why they have line judges to watch for it.
crossfiring on a rifle line....to help a buddy out.
then he plants one on your target but not as perfect as yours.
sneaking extra hot rounds on to the line in your rifle dope bag. get caught, youre evicted from the match.
dishonest scoring on your score card.
switching barrels on first shot during an olympic skeet match. big no no. yet, some try.
heck nssa has a book full of what ifs.....and trust me, most always challenge the rules to cheat thru the cracks in the armor.
bullseye especially.
you have 9x, 9 bullseyes going thru the same hole....so instead of chancing your last shot to be off, you plant one in the dirt.
its why they have line judges to watch for it.
crossfiring on a rifle line....to help a buddy out.
then he plants one on your target but not as perfect as yours.
sneaking extra hot rounds on to the line in your rifle dope bag. get caught, youre evicted from the match.
dishonest scoring on your score card.
switching barrels on first shot during an olympic skeet match. big no no. yet, some try.
heck nssa has a book full of what ifs.....and trust me, most always challenge the rules to cheat thru the cracks in the armor.
OP
KIR
Sparks, NV
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Thanks bobski, didn't realize all that except for "crossfiring on a rifle line...to help a buddy out". We would take off for Reno after a payday from Beale AFB, blow our paychecks and drive back just in time to catch the truck that was going to the firing range. We had changed our clothes in the car. Well, we were so bleary eyed and sleepy from staying up all night some of us shot at our buddies targets so at least half of us would qualify (expert every six months was mandatory). I once shot a score of 400 out of a possible 300 on my target. 
The ones who did not qualify, came back in two weeks and then qualified.
The ones who did not qualify, came back in two weeks and then qualified.
Blood doping in biathlon to slow heart rate.
please explain this
" switching barrels on first shot during an olympic skeet match. big no no. yet, some try."
contender
Ruger Guru
Sadly,, no matter what the sport is,, there are people who will cheat. Often,, many rules get written after a cheater gets caught.
I've seen cheaters in SASS & USPSA.
Usually it's people who want to be perceived as "better" than they actually are. But also,, I've seen it done to "gain an edge" over other competitors,, or allow a re-shoot, or whatever. I know of one shooter in USPSA who altered the scores of his own,, as well as a few of his friends. Even worse,, he gave lower scores to other competitors. He was caught on video. Banned for life.
I've seen cheaters in SASS & USPSA.
Usually it's people who want to be perceived as "better" than they actually are. But also,, I've seen it done to "gain an edge" over other competitors,, or allow a re-shoot, or whatever. I know of one shooter in USPSA who altered the scores of his own,, as well as a few of his friends. Even worse,, he gave lower scores to other competitors. He was caught on video. Banned for life.
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Sad. I just don’t know how anyone could get any satisfaction out of winning if it wasn’t a legitimate win.
contender
Ruger Guru
"I just don't know how anyone could get any satisfaction out of winning if it wasn't a legitimate win."
A "shrink" I was friends with several years ago told me these people, in their own minds are actually better than their performance shows. They often have little excuses for their poorer performance,, (never their fault,) and do things to boost themselves to what they perceive they "deserve." Their satisfaction comes from winning something,, because in their own minds they "earned" it or deserve it!
A "shrink" I was friends with several years ago told me these people, in their own minds are actually better than their performance shows. They often have little excuses for their poorer performance,, (never their fault,) and do things to boost themselves to what they perceive they "deserve." Their satisfaction comes from winning something,, because in their own minds they "earned" it or deserve it!
Look up Smokey Yunick and the 11 foot gas line sometime...the man had rule bending down to a science.
Rat76
Blackhawk
The difference between breaking & bending, Smokey Yunick, a master of following the letter & ignoring the spirit.
https://www.carthrottle.com/news/7-hilariously-mad-racing-cheats-were-all-work-smokey-yunick
https://www.carthrottle.com/news/7-hilariously-mad-racing-cheats-were-all-work-smokey-yunick
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- 10,875
I always wondered were the line is.
In baseball on a close call, the runner will vehemently insist he was safe, even though he knows he wasn’t. That is still cheating, but it’s expected for him to do that.
There is a belief that it’s only cheating if you get caught. A truly honorable man couldn’t lie about it. But can you imagine a runner being called safe then saying “no I was out”?
In baseball on a close call, the runner will vehemently insist he was safe, even though he knows he wasn’t. That is still cheating, but it’s expected for him to do that.
There is a belief that it’s only cheating if you get caught. A truly honorable man couldn’t lie about it. But can you imagine a runner being called safe then saying “no I was out”?
bobski
Hunter
golferboy,
if you have 9 shots thru a ragged clover leaf hole, there is no way to prove the 10th didnt got thru it.
plant one in the dirt...and itll be assumed the 10th went thru for another x, based on the shooters amazing skill.
go to perry someday and witness it.
if youve never seen a 300/9x vs a 300/10x battle before, go and be amazed.
if you have 9 shots thru a ragged clover leaf hole, there is no way to prove the 10th didnt got thru it.
plant one in the dirt...and itll be assumed the 10th went thru for another x, based on the shooters amazing skill.
go to perry someday and witness it.
if youve never seen a 300/9x vs a 300/10x battle before, go and be amazed.
Last edited:
contender
Ruger Guru
That Bullseye target about the 9 holes & the 10th one made me recall how a National Champion shooter handled a scoring call in USPSA.
It was a State level match. I was a lowly stage worker. The shooter shot his stage,, and there was one target,, that had (5) distinct holes,, with one hole that appeared a little large. There were supposed to be (6) holes in the target. The 5 holes were in a solid 3" group,, centered. The presentation wasn't a hard one. The RO called a miss. The shooter POLITELY asked for a CRO ruling. The CRO looked at it,,, and said; "I stand by the RO, it's a miss." The shooter then POLITELY asked for the range master for a ruling. They removed the target to be scored by the Range Master, and put up a fresh one so the other shooters could continue shooting while awaiting the RM's call.
The RM came down,, looked it over,, and pulled the RO & the CRO aside,, had a discussion, and called it a miss.
Now,, While I was still a newer worker RO type,, I watched this whole thing closely. What I NEVER saw happen,, was the RO, the CRO, or the RM did NOT, by USPSA rules,, use a scoring overlay to study the (2) bullets in the same hole that was the challenge. And while I was a newer RO & all, I had plenty of shooting experience,, and to my eyes,, there was 2 bullets that had hit this one hole. The shooter,, POLITELY took the miss as his score.
BUT,,,, here's where I really saw cheating.
I had gone to this match with the Range Master. I considered him a friend. As we were headed home,, I was relaxing, almost dozing in the back seat as the RM was driving and talking with his wife. That disputed call came up in their conversation. I'll never forget what was said by the RM. He said; "Just because he's XYZ & a world champion,, doesn't mean he can't miss. Who does he think he is disputing me or my RO's?"
Now,, what I had done after it was all over & the target in question was put aside,, I had actually took a pair of scoring overlays,, and discovered,, that when properly used,, there were (2) bullets that had hit the same hole. The shooter was right,, and the people he was supposed to rely upon had cheated him because of who he was.
A year or two later,, I was enjoying a discussion with this shooter,, and told him that I had (a) gained a LOT of respect for him that day,, and (b) lost a lot of respect for the RM & how they had handled his scoring. His reply was; "Thanks but it didn't bother me enough to push it. If I had needed those points,,, I would have asked for the scoring overlays. I didn't,, so it's on them,, not me."
A class act.
He got cheated by people who didn't like the fact he was that good.
Or heck,, just this past year's Area 6 match. (2023.) I was the RO on the timer, and the shooter was the Range Master. She shot a target,, and CLEARLY had a "C" hit. The CRO was "watching" me,, and challenged my call. I placed the overlays on the target,, and he still said it was a higher "A" score. He then turned to the RM and said; "You are the RM,, how would you rule this hit?" She was the shooter & should NOT have been the one call a score on her own target. Yet,, of course she said it was an "A" hit.
After it was over,, I politely asked her to talk to me off to the side. I told her,, that in my opinion, she,, as RM should not have ruled at all, and since I felt it was "unsportsmanlike conduct," (A USPSA rule violation,) I would NOT be running the timer or calling any scores for anyone for that match.
Cheaters,, yep,, they exist.
It was a State level match. I was a lowly stage worker. The shooter shot his stage,, and there was one target,, that had (5) distinct holes,, with one hole that appeared a little large. There were supposed to be (6) holes in the target. The 5 holes were in a solid 3" group,, centered. The presentation wasn't a hard one. The RO called a miss. The shooter POLITELY asked for a CRO ruling. The CRO looked at it,,, and said; "I stand by the RO, it's a miss." The shooter then POLITELY asked for the range master for a ruling. They removed the target to be scored by the Range Master, and put up a fresh one so the other shooters could continue shooting while awaiting the RM's call.
The RM came down,, looked it over,, and pulled the RO & the CRO aside,, had a discussion, and called it a miss.
Now,, While I was still a newer worker RO type,, I watched this whole thing closely. What I NEVER saw happen,, was the RO, the CRO, or the RM did NOT, by USPSA rules,, use a scoring overlay to study the (2) bullets in the same hole that was the challenge. And while I was a newer RO & all, I had plenty of shooting experience,, and to my eyes,, there was 2 bullets that had hit this one hole. The shooter,, POLITELY took the miss as his score.
BUT,,,, here's where I really saw cheating.
I had gone to this match with the Range Master. I considered him a friend. As we were headed home,, I was relaxing, almost dozing in the back seat as the RM was driving and talking with his wife. That disputed call came up in their conversation. I'll never forget what was said by the RM. He said; "Just because he's XYZ & a world champion,, doesn't mean he can't miss. Who does he think he is disputing me or my RO's?"
Now,, what I had done after it was all over & the target in question was put aside,, I had actually took a pair of scoring overlays,, and discovered,, that when properly used,, there were (2) bullets that had hit the same hole. The shooter was right,, and the people he was supposed to rely upon had cheated him because of who he was.
A year or two later,, I was enjoying a discussion with this shooter,, and told him that I had (a) gained a LOT of respect for him that day,, and (b) lost a lot of respect for the RM & how they had handled his scoring. His reply was; "Thanks but it didn't bother me enough to push it. If I had needed those points,,, I would have asked for the scoring overlays. I didn't,, so it's on them,, not me."
A class act.
He got cheated by people who didn't like the fact he was that good.
Or heck,, just this past year's Area 6 match. (2023.) I was the RO on the timer, and the shooter was the Range Master. She shot a target,, and CLEARLY had a "C" hit. The CRO was "watching" me,, and challenged my call. I placed the overlays on the target,, and he still said it was a higher "A" score. He then turned to the RM and said; "You are the RM,, how would you rule this hit?" She was the shooter & should NOT have been the one call a score on her own target. Yet,, of course she said it was an "A" hit.
After it was over,, I politely asked her to talk to me off to the side. I told her,, that in my opinion, she,, as RM should not have ruled at all, and since I felt it was "unsportsmanlike conduct," (A USPSA rule violation,) I would NOT be running the timer or calling any scores for anyone for that match.
Cheaters,, yep,, they exist.
As I read this I am appalled that people will cheat but they do. In the world of NRA/CMP Service rifle shooting occasionally, the electronic target malfunctions fails to record a shot. When this is brought to the attention of the match director he checks adjoining target for cross-fires (unintentional) if none are indicated the competitor is allowed to fire and alibi round. The "rule of thumb" since I started competing in 1965, is "if there is a question" the ruling goes in the favor of the competitor. Usually the question was in regard of the scoring ring not a missed shot, however a ten round group where the hole is nothing but a ragged spot the shots are considered ten. Electronic targets, properly functioning, will count all ten shots regardless of the tightness of the group. If the miss occurs within the area monitored by microphones it will score the miss as a "0".
bobski
Hunter
I DONT LIKE TO ADMIT IT, BUT IM SURE THERES PAYOLA ON THE SIDE FOR THESE BIG MATCHES.
Most tested athletics in NCAA shooters as they take medication to slow heart rate.
I use to shoot muzzle loader matches all the time I was told by a few of the regular shooters to keep an eye on the guy next to me that he was known to cheat so i did and saw him roll up his 100 yd target together with his 50 yd aggregate and put them up at 50 yds together so I put an extra round in them for him
Another time I shot a perfect 50 yd target 5 shots offhand looked like a 4 leaf clover the RO was standing behind me he called only 4 shots but he did let me reshoot another target and you could see all 5 all in the bullseye that was at the state championship match which I won I wish i could still shoot that good
Another time I shot a perfect 50 yd target 5 shots offhand looked like a 4 leaf clover the RO was standing behind me he called only 4 shots but he did let me reshoot another target and you could see all 5 all in the bullseye that was at the state championship match which I won I wish i could still shoot that good
Or toss someone a 9 or 2golferboy,
if you have 9 shots thru a ragged clover leaf hole, there is no way to prove the 10th didnt got thru it.
plant one in the dirt...and itll be assumed the 10th went thru for another x, based on the shooters amazing skill.
go to perry someday and witness it.
if youve never seen a 300/9x vs a 300/10x battle before, go and be amazed.
Papalote
Single-Sixer
When I shot USPA 30 years ago it was called "gamesmanship". Push it to the limit and when you got caught just act dumb about the rules. I went to the Limited Nationals two years in a row. It was just as prevalent there as in the local matches. I left the sport because of the gamesmanship and the whiners.
I believe it refers to having to use the lower barrel for the first shot each time but shooters start using the upper barrel for the first shot due to the lower barrel being heated up, or vice-versa or something like that.
I remember hearing years ago of some shooting sports having a sheet of wax paper behind the target that was moved between each shot to account for each shot in a case of a ragged hole situation. Was this somebodies dream, or was it in place in some sports? I want to say it a was bench rest.
I can't tell you how may targets I saw given, or taken, away depending on who was shooting in silhouette.
I can't tell you how may targets I saw given, or taken, away depending on who was shooting in silhouette.
Colonialgirl
Hawkeye
Did you know that a ball point pen makes the same size hole as an M-14 round ? The Battery Commander said he KNEW we didn't ALL fire Expert during re-qualifications !
True but the gas line thing was in response to the limited gas supply regulation.
The umpires opinion.
bobski
Hunter
part of winning a gold medal is to NOT PUT your shell in the wrong bbl. if you do, itll go click.
ref then checks to see if you put it in the wrong bbl and checks what you declared.
if you switch bbls during the match after you (declared) bottom or top first, and change your mind....its a disqual.
ref then checks to see if you put it in the wrong bbl and checks what you declared.
if you switch bbls during the match after you (declared) bottom or top first, and change your mind....its a disqual.
With all the gambling these days, the cheating is sometimes to achieve a desired result that may not be a win.
I knew a marine that got "that" gun for qualifying. Couldn’t hit a thing with it. Long after every passed and left, the sergeant finally walks down to the target with him, takes the pencil and pokes a passing score into the target!
Cheaters, liars, thieves, I don't do those things nor tolerate those who do. Including internet sales and forums. I notice a liar claiming something Impossible or contradicting their previous statements and I'll normally never say a word. I just block them or put them on the highest level of ignore a forum allows. Why would I EVER want to hear or read anything else they have to say or risk getting involved in a financial transaction with a liar, thief, or cheater.
Gopher
Blackhawk
I saw a video on X the other day about two current NFL refs who have made a ton of bad calls this year. Somebody went back and looked at all of their games and discovered the underdog team had won something like 80% of the games these guys called. Hmmmm?
That was a 'classic'! The rule book required a 20 gallon guel tank. It was checked a lot, however nothing was in writing as to how big and long the fuel lines were. He used oversized lines and an 11 foot long line from the tank to the engine. It held considerably more fuel than all the others.
