Cast Bullet Lube Question

[Cracker-American]

I have now been at the reloading passion just long enough to probably be a danger to myself.

Before I knew any better I bought 500 .44 and .41 cast SWC from a local dealer. Both bullets are bevel based and lubed with what I see ya'll call the "crayon lube".

I have done some research on the Cast Boolits forum on lubes both factory and homemade but all seem to be set up to be used in the lubrisizer not as an "add on".

With stout loads of H 110 leading is not a problem. With Unique there is, bad.

So my questions are. If you were me what would you do? and can I get a sort of readers digest tutorial on bullet lubes and a way to use them on already sized bullets.

 

[contender]

While I'm not "readers digest" writer & won't be able to give you all the info you seek,, I'll offer this. Try Lee Liquid Alox added to the bullets. You have already mentioned that stout loads using H110 doesn't cause a problem,, and that using Unique does. It sounds like a possible case of very different velocities may be causing the leading issues.

 

[Rick Courtright]

With stout loads of H 110 leading is not a problem. With Unique there is, bad.

Hi,

I'm sure many here can join me in telling similar stories where leading occurred w/ lighter loads and commercial bullets. The lubes often used are rather hard (often requiring heat to apply--look at the lubri-sizer tools in the catalogs and you'll see heaters available for some) and need a pretty "hot" load to work well.

Leave whatever's on the bullets alone, get a bottle of Lee Liquid Alox, and treat the bullets, applying the LLA over whatever's already there. I've used LLA on my home cast bullets for quite a while. It generally does a pretty good job on "fresh" (unlubed) bullets, and really helps the pre-lubed commercial ones.

It doesn't take much: a lot of loaders thin the stuff one way or another. Mineral spirits can be used. Or, a coffee mug full of boiling water works well, too. Let the bottle sit in hot water until the LLA is very thin, then it just takes a few drops to do 50-100 bullets. Drop 'em out of whatever dish you use to lube 'em (plastic margerine tubs work nicely) onto waxed paper to dry (overnight is best.) Some folks like to stand 'em up so any extra lube runs downward toward the base. That's up to you.

Give it a try--I think you'll find most of your problem's solved. You'll find a second coating of LLA is sometimes helpful...

If more lube doesn't help, it's also possible your bullets are too hard for the lighter loads. That's not uncommon w/ commercial bullets. You can contact the mfr to see if they can give you the BHN (Brinnell Hardness Number) they cast to w/ their alloy. Let us know that number and we may have additional ideas...

Rick C

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I tried some LLA when I first loaded (pre-lubed) cast rifle bullets for .30/30. I found it to be such a sticky mess to deal with that it wasn't worth whatever leading it prevented. If you pre-lube the bullets the stuff gets all over your dies, hands, and anything else it comes into contact with, and basically gets wiped off before you ever chamber the round. Maybe I used too much, but I did let it dry at least 24 hours before I tried loading them. It almost seemed like it would be better to load up the cartridges, then dip the bullet in LLA and let it dry.

-- Sam

 

[Cracker-American]

Mfg recommends Unique. They do not use bhn but another method of measuring hardness. When you convert if comes out to around 18 which is hard but not real hard.

How do you use two to three drops in a marjorine tub?

 

[eric conrad]

Penny, as Rick said thin the LLA. I use mineral spirts but putting the bottle in HOT water is good. It tells you how onthe bottle.
Dribble a FEW drops in the tub and cover the bottom with bullets. Move the tub around a bit and put on wax paper. Let set 24hrs. and they should be good to go. Its easier to have to do them again than wipe the LLA off. They may not look covered but they are. I stand mine up to dry out of any weather.
Sam, sounds like you used WAAAAAAAAY to much :lol:
You could try molly bullets. They work at about any speed.
Eric

 

[powder smoke]

Interesting thread, I've been lucky I guess I shoot a lot of cast bullets from wild to mild and never had any leading problems. ps

 

[captainkirk]

Penny, as Rick said thin the LLA. I use mineral spirts but putting the bottle in HOT water is good. It tells you how onthe bottle.
Dribble a FEW drops in the tub and cover the bottom with bullets. Move the tub around a bit and put on wax paper. Let set 24hrs. and they should be good to go. Its easier to have to do them again than wipe the LLA off. They may not look covered but they are. I stand mine up to dry out of any weather.
Sam, sounds like you used WAAAAAAAAY to much :lol:
You could try molly bullets. They work at about any speed.
Eric

Yes, this is pretty much what the guys at castboolits will tell you as well. It is just a thin, light coating. Don't feel like you have to fill the lube grooves on your bullets. That is how I started out and it will stay sticky just about forever and really gum up your seating die. The thin coat should not cause you any troubles.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I agree w/ Eric that Sam probably had WAY too much LLA on his bullets. I found that's easy to do if LLA's not thinned when applying it...

IME, a first thin coat will just "dull" the appearance of a nice shiny bullet straight from the mold. A second thin coat will usually give the bullet just a slight brownish tinge.

No argument about LLA picking up lint, sand or many of the other treasures that collect in pockets and such--even thin coats can do it!--so I take a rag w/ some mineral spirits on it and clean the LLA from the exposed bullet on my loaded rifle and revolver cartridges if they're not going straight from the box to the chamber.

It also can build up on the feed ramp and cause FTFs in my 9mm, so I clean all those cartridges "automatically." Seems like a lot of work, but it's easy to do while watching TV!

A Q-tip w/ some mineral spirits makes short work of cleaning dies if you haven't let the stuff build up too badly.

Rick C

 

[Jimbo357mag]

With stout loads of H 110 leading is not a problem. With Unique there is, bad.

So my questions are. If you were me what would you do? and can I get a sort of readers digest tutorial on bullet lubes and a way to use them on already sized bullets.

Shoot those hard cast bullets fairly "hot" with H-110 and get some softer flat base "cowboy" bullets for target shooting and plinking. You can try putting more lube on the softer bullets but I think it is not going to be necessary if you shoot them at the right speed and pressure and they fit your gun well.

...Jimbo

 

[Bucks Owin]

I'm with Jimbo...And FWIW, I think Unique belongs on the ash heap of old outdated propellants. It isn't especially "kind" to cast bullets and kinda dirty too IMO....(Duckin' and runnin' now... :lol: ) Lee alox? Great stuff!

 

[llkanne]

roll them in motormica, then between fingers to press it into the lla. will add 5o ft ps to the load. no more leading either. this is not useable in autos as it will cake up at the forcing cone & cause failure to seat cases. found out the hardway. lyle :lol:

 

[Olsherm]

FWIW: I use the Lee Liquid Alox with great success. Beat way I have found is to put the bottle in hot water to thin it. Then,put some bullets (25 or 30) in an old work sock and just "squish" them around in it until they become coated with just a light thin coating like the old 22 cal bullets we all used to shoot. I find it just takes a very thin coating. Hardly looks like they have much lube on them but you can feel it with your fingers. I have been shooting pure lead bullets in 38/40- & 44/40 with nothing but the Alox coating (at Cowboy velocities) and have not had leading so far. Just thought I would pass tha along. I tried coating them in the "butter tub" but that is way too much lube and very messy. Most of the excess like that will scrape off as you seat the bullet but not the thin coat method.

 

[Hammerdown77]

I have now been at the reloading passion just long enough to probably be a danger to myself.

Before I knew any better I bought 500 .44 and .41 cast SWC from a local dealer. Both bullets are bevel based and lubed with what I see ya'll call the "crayon lube".

I have done some research on the Cast Boolits forum on lubes both factory and homemade but all seem to be set up to be used in the lubrisizer not as an "add on".

With stout loads of H 110 leading is not a problem. With Unique there is, bad.

So my questions are. If you were me what would you do? and can I get a sort of readers digest tutorial on bullet lubes and a way to use them on already sized bullets.

If your bullets are BHN of 18 or greater, they are probably too hard for Unique, unless you're running "Ruger only" pressures with it.

I have similar problems in my .45 Colt with Unique leading with the harder bullets. These bullets are also bevel base, with the hard crayon lube. H-110 causes no issues. I went to a 12 BHN of the same bullet and that helped things quite a bit, but I still get some leading the first inch or so in the barrel.

I bought some Lee Liquid Alox and thinned it out a bit with mineral spirits. I poured a little in a small plastic cup (the kind that comes on cough syrup bottles) and just dipped the bullets in to coat them up to the cannelure. The LLA was thin enough that the excess just flowed right off, leaving a very thin coating on the bearing surface.

That seems to have done the trick. Easy, and cheaper than buying a sizer/lubricating press.

 

[slippingaway]

Yep, either some Lee Liquid Alox, or buy some softer bullets. It's counter-intuitive, but most leading is caused by bullets being too hard, and/or not being pushed hard enough.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Would you be so kind as to show me what to look for should Unique be unkind to the cast boolits. I'm shooting milsurps, going for uber tight 100 meter groups, but with reduced velocity. So the effect upon boolits by the powder is of interest to me.

Could you point me to a place to find out? Or maybe other folks on this thread have experience.

In the book Modern Reloading by Richard Lee he goes into detail and theory and calculations for loading reduced loads with cast rifle bullets. He has some charts and data for 30-30, 308 and 30-06. What I got out of it was the higher the pressure the harder the bullet needed to be. duh. Also that fast powders can push past the sides of the bullets melting the rifling and ruining accuracy. In other words the choice of powder is very important. Remember not to reduce rifle powder charges too much.

You might want to start a separate thread about cast rifle bullets at reduced velocities.

...Jimbo

 

[gramps]

Hi,
I've used Johnson's Paste Wax. Take a tsp and put it in an plastic bottle with 50 cast bullets. Set it in the sun til warm(about 15 min) roll the bottle around til all bullets are coated. Place bullets on a sheet of wax paper or aluminum foil to dry. Then use. Every thing said about LLA pro and con goes for JPW. JPW has a large percentage of carnuba wax. I've experienced no leading.
gramps